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New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

theautopian.com

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Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#331

Post by sudosysgen »

smileysteve wrote: post #283
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the short term I could see Tesla not supporting the driver and absolving themselves via fine line/TOS, etc Imagine there is an 'autopilot' gun, you buy it, and it comes with the contract that says you take full responsibility got the gun. Then it shoots me and kills me before you have a chance to react. The prosecutor will go after the manufacturer. If manufacturer wrote code that kills me, you and any contract…

Unless there is precedent and tort "reform" by the given lobby. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protection_of_Lawful_Commerc...

Tort is civil law. Criminal liability still can't be insulated.

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#332

Post by [deleted] »

int_19h wrote: post #138
sokoloff wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I brake check someone on the highway, causing an accident, and it’s discovered that that’s what happened, I’d be pretty shocked* if the trailing driver was found responsible. That video looks like a combined lane change and brake check on the part of the Tesla. * and disappointed

Why would you be shocked and disappointed? It is the obligation of the driver trailing you to maintain enough distance to be able to stop safely if the car in front of them has to brake hard for whatever reason. The fact that your hard braking wasn't actually necessary may mean that you're also responsible, but it doesn't absolve the other driver.

[deleted]

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#333

Post by malikNF »

shepherdjerred wrote: post #253
axelfontaine wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have this technology today. It's called trains.

Trains aren't really comparable to autonomous lanes. An autonomous car can travel on both normal roads, and in an autonomous lane. Roads are everywhere -- there's a road leading up to most people's place of residence. Trains rely on tracks which are not as common as roads. Trains are also not owned by individuals. Most people do not have a train station outside of their house.

> Roads are everywhere -- there's a road leading up to most people's place of residence.

But parent's comment was aimed at the one lane for self driving cars comment.

So I don’t see how you comment could apply to it. Yes we have roads leading up to almost everyone’s house. But in the case of a dedicated self driving lane proposal it would be as impractical As giving everyone a railway track leading to their home.

> Trains are not owned by individuals.

Exactly. So instead of building infrastructure to improve moving a few people at a time, improving infrastructure that helps move a few hundred at a time seems like a better investment.

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#334

Post by int_19h »

Shorel wrote: post #226
int_19h wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you be shocked and disappointed? It is the obligation of the driver trailing you to maintain enough distance to be able to stop safely if the car in front of them has to brake hard for whatever reason. The fact that your hard braking wasn't actually necessary may mean that you're also responsible, but it doesn't absolve the other driver.

As much as I agree with you, it seems that concepts like 'brake check' and other road rage behaviours make this matter a lot more complicated than common sense dictates. Simply, drivers don't use their common sense, and just their normal daily driving routine is already endangering to people around.

It does. And then also actually maintaining a safe distance can be difficult simply because people will immediately merge in there (and then brake in front of you, because of course now they're too close to the other car).

Maintaining a safe configuration of cars on the road is the collective job of everyone who is driving on it; and conversely, it takes just one person to ruin it for everybody who is doing the right thing. So it really needs to be a part of the culture of driving for that to work. And we don't have that in US, unfortunately (though, to be fair, there are far worse places to drive in).

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#335

Post by brewdad »

TheChaplain wrote: post #301
doctorwho42 wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poor argument for underfunded and purposefully stymied train development in the early to mid 20th century. Just look to Europe for what a large swath of the US could have if it invested in train infrastructure. Train good, car bad.

I live in Europe and commute by train. I need to order tickets 10 days ahead to get the cheapest price, and they're non-refundable as well as non-changeable. That means I have fixed times, there is no flexibility if I wish to leave earlier or need to stay longer. If I do, I lose the initial charge plus a new 3 times more expensive ticket. Ticket prices also varies depending on time, which means I have to leave really…

You have options that would give you more flexibility on travel times you simply value the lower cost over the convenience. That’s not a train problem that’s a choice you have made.

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#336

Post by Toutouxc »

TheChaplain wrote: post #301
doctorwho42 wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poor argument for underfunded and purposefully stymied train development in the early to mid 20th century. Just look to Europe for what a large swath of the US could have if it invested in train infrastructure. Train good, car bad.

I live in Europe and commute by train. I need to order tickets 10 days ahead to get the cheapest price, and they're non-refundable as well as non-changeable. That means I have fixed times, there is no flexibility if I wish to leave earlier or need to stay longer. If I do, I lose the initial charge plus a new 3 times more expensive ticket. Ticket prices also varies depending on time, which means I have to leave really…

Sounds annoying, which country?

Where I live the national railway carrier lets you refund or exchange your tickets and seat reservations freely up until 15 minutes before the departure time, most ticket types are valid for a day (so you don’t have to buy one for a specific connection) and the prices are, I believe, more or less fixed. The delays are inevitable I guess in most larger networks.

I don’t take the train that often, but my experience is generally pretty good, especially as I’m starting to hate driving.

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#337

Post by watwut »

choeger wrote: post #330

Everyone claiming that the autopilot is at fault for stopping suddenly get something very important very wrong: Stopping a car must be possible at all times. Any automation in a car should always be able to stop the car as the safe default. The same holds for human drivers, of course: Consider the possibility that the vehicle in front of the Tesla just lost some of its load. Of course the Tesla then has to stop sudde…

Tesla changed lanes quite close to to the first care in pile up and then abruptly stopped. When you are changing the lanes, you are supposed to do it in a way that gives the other driver space.

Abolutely nothing was in front of Tesla, nothing could have loose the load.

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#338

Post by [deleted] »

choeger wrote: post #330

Everyone claiming that the autopilot is at fault for stopping suddenly get something very important very wrong: Stopping a car must be possible at all times. Any automation in a car should always be able to stop the car as the safe default. The same holds for human drivers, of course: Consider the possibility that the vehicle in front of the Tesla just lost some of its load. Of course the Tesla then has to stop sudde…

[deleted]

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#339

Post by [deleted] »

throwaway892238 wrote: post #200

I'm still waiting for autonomous-only lanes. For extremely long and boring highways (usually full of trucks), this just seems like the logical conclusion of all self-driving tech to me. Dedicate one lane to self-driving, have the vehicles all on autonomous mode, and have them keep enough distance so their braking performance prevents them from crashing in an unexpected stop. You should be able to literally just sleep…

[deleted]

Re: New video of Tesla crash demonstrates the problem of semi-automated driving

#340

Post by brewdad »

xyzzyz wrote: post #307
TingPing wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maintenance cost of rail is significantly cheaper. Don't sink more into bad design.

It costs Amtrak over $300k a year to maintain a single mile of track on the Northeast corridor. For comparison, it costs around $30k to maintain a single mile of US interstate, i.e. only 10% of the cost to maintain rail track. In what sense rail is cheaper to maintain, exactly?

Citation needed. I can believe that we spend $30k a year filling potholes on a mile of interstate but every 10 years we have to resurface it and every 30-50 years we have to completely rebuild it.
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