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US Department of Energy: Fusion Ignition Achieved

energy.gov

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Re: US Department of Energy: Fusion Ignition Achieved

#331

Post by ganbatekudasai »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #154
Robotbeat wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s only because they’re using old school flash pumped lasers, not the new solid state lasers you’d use today if you wanted to make a power plant demo.

It just seems a little strange to take credit for a milestone when the milestone everyone cares about is yet to be reached. (More energy out than in.) Good to hear that there's a laser design that might achieve that.

Don't take it too personally, but you, and many others here, need to rethink their approach. You see a short tweet without context about a topic you clearly know nothing about (which is totally, fully okay, it's a complex topic), and think you are now able to criticize milestones in this impossibly complex topic.

Not even ask questions, not something like "hey, I saw this tweet, I know it's just a tweet, but can someone help me understand context?", no, you actually go ahead and criticize work that you know nothing about, and when confronted, you double down.

On some level, you must know yourself that it might be better to ask as many unloaded questions as you want, but otherwise sit this one out in terms of assessment.

Re: US Department of Energy: Fusion Ignition Achieved

#332

Post by spullara »

riemannzeta wrote: post #286
spullara wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at the mass before of their fuel, 1 deuterium atom + 1 tritium atom: 2.01410177811 u + 3.01604928 u = 5.03015105811 u vs the mass of the fusion products of 1 helium atom and 1 neutron: 4.002602 u + 1.008 u = 5.010602 u You'll notice that even though we started with 5 neutrons and 2 protons and ended up with the same number there was some additional binding energy that is unaccounted for in the new configu…

Great comment. But you meant 2 helium atoms and 1 neutron in the second equation, correct?

Nope. Helium has 2 protons and 2 neutrons. Here is an image that shows the reaction:

https://www.energy.gov/sites/default/files/styles/full_artic...

Re: US Department of Energy: Fusion Ignition Achieved

#333

Post by busyant »

I'm sure this has been considered, but I haven't ready anything about the "geo-political" effects of virtually unlimited energy from fusion.

I imagine that power dynamics would change drastically, but I have no clue, really.

I understand that's still far away, but are there any articles/discussions on how large scale fusion-generated energy would change the world?

Re: US Department of Energy: Fusion Ignition Achieved

#334

Post by 867-5309 »

bmmayer1 wrote: post #103
jkelleyrtp wrote: post #33

> LLNL’s experiment surpassed the fusion threshold by delivering 2.05 megajoules (MJ) of energy to the target, resulting in 3.15 MJ of fusion energy output, demonstrating for the first time a most fundamental science basis for inertial fusion energy (IFE) Yesterday, everyone was complaining about the 2.2:2.0 ratio, but now we're working with 3.15:2.05. With modern lasers, that'd be a total Q of 0.375 assuming 100% ef…

This is a stupid question but I don't know anything about fusion: How is it possible for X energy to create X+Y energy in output? Doesn't that violate some fundamental law of physics?

equally confusing is the BBC article which mentions the energy used for the reaction does not include the energy needed to power the lasers, which renders it a net loss

Re: US Department of Energy: Fusion Ignition Achieved

#335

Post by spullara »

aaroninsf wrote: post #228
spullara wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at the mass before of their fuel, 1 deuterium atom + 1 tritium atom: 2.01410177811 u + 3.01604928 u = 5.03015105811 u vs the mass of the fusion products of 1 helium atom and 1 neutron: 4.002602 u + 1.008 u = 5.010602 u You'll notice that even though we started with 5 neutrons and 2 protons and ended up with the same number there was some additional binding energy that is unaccounted for in the new configu…

This is an A+ comment—helpful, well-formatted, concise, with bonus interesting additional detail. Thank you.

Thanks, finally got to use my physics masters degree.

Re: US Department of Energy: Fusion Ignition Achieved

#336

Post by sam0x17 »

Early in my career I had the pleasure of interning at LLNL (ironically, working on a completely open source compiler project) but I was able to go on a number of tours of NIF. It was extremely cool. They have a whole team of software engineers writing software just to keep all the mirrors calibrated and things like that. In person it is much bigger than it seems in pictures.

Re: US Department of Energy: Fusion Ignition Achieved

#337

Post by andruc »

pfdietz wrote: post #206
floxy wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The Q needs to be something like 500 to 1000 Why wouldn't a final Q of 50 be economically viable? Interest on capital costs? Other?

Capital cost, cost of individual targets.

If you've done the math to determine the threshold, you may as well show it already

Re: US Department of Energy: Fusion Ignition Achieved

#338

Post by stock_toaster »

eklitzke wrote: post #262
spullara wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at the mass before of their fuel, 1 deuterium atom + 1 tritium atom: 2.01410177811 u + 3.01604928 u = 5.03015105811 u vs the mass of the fusion products of 1 helium atom and 1 neutron: 4.002602 u + 1.008 u = 5.010602 u You'll notice that even though we started with 5 neutrons and 2 protons and ended up with the same number there was some additional binding energy that is unaccounted for in the new configu…

Tangentially related, but I think this is an interesting fact, all the atoms in our universe/galaxy/solar system with a mass up to that of iron are formed in the core of stars in stellar fusion. Hydrogen fuses into helium, and as a star nears the end of its lifetime you get heavier elements like lithium, carbon, and so on. Under normal stellar fusion no elements heavier than iron will be produced, and iron is only el…

  “The nitrogen in our DNA, 
  the calcium in our teeth, 
  the iron in our blood, 
  the carbon in our apple pies
  were made in the interiors of collapsing stars.
  We are made of star stuff”.
  – Carl Sagan

Re: US Department of Energy: Fusion Ignition Achieved

#339

Post by maerF0x0 »

> “We have had a theoretical understanding of fusion for over a century, but the journey from knowing to doing can be long and arduous. Today’s milestone shows what we can do with perseverance,” said Dr. Arati Prabhakar, the President’s Chief Advisor for Science and Technology and Director of the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy.

This part gives me so much hope as we have understandings of what is theoretically possible, and in due time humanity reaches them. This gives me a lot of hope especially in the fields of curing major diseases and in longevity!

Re: US Department of Energy: Fusion Ignition Achieved

#340

Post by z3phyr »

azinman2 wrote: post #204
hackernewds wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funding does seem miniscule given we spend 100x more on funding military excursions in the name of energy security

Is the bottleneck for fusion money though?

More money attracts more eyes, hands, grey matter which they would otherwise focus on something with more money. But it is a long process.
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