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Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

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Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#331

Post by fncivivue7 »

Hnrobert42 wrote: post #254
fncivivue7 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hyperbole requires intent and exaggeration, can you point out either? I'm not seeing it. It's also 100% on topic. You not liking the discussion doesn't change that.

You believe the US intel operation is comparable to the Stasi?

Completely? Of course not. On the grounds mentioned above? Yes, of course.

Stating comparisons isn't hyperbole just because you don't like the comparison. Neither is it a conspiracy theory. Five eyes shitfuckery is extremely well documented.

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#332

Post by _Algernon_ »

Hnrobert42 wrote: post #253
dangrossman wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds fairly accurate to me. This is what killed the US-EU Privacy Shield program, twice. That was the government's attempt at creating a way for US companies like Facebook to legally process data of EU citizens under GDPR. It's been struck down by the EU courts, due to our federal government's spy powers and the CLOUD Act, that invalidate any claims US companies make about protecting personal data in their posse…

I was referring to comparing the US intel operation to the Stasi.

In terms of quantities of data collected this likely undersells US efforts. In terms of nefarious use it perhaps oversells the issue… at least so far. But calling it a conspiracy is disingenuous when the potential is clearly there, and OP's comparison was clearly about the quantity of data collected.

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#333

Post by _Algernon_ »

johndhi wrote: post #162

This is a crazy way of making laws, IMO. To recap: a law was put in place 5 years ago that said if you get consent you can basically use data in any way, with some very vague and general language about how consent can be gathered and what it means. Meanwhile, Facebook has invested billions of dollars in building and developing a platform according to their fair reading of that law. Then, some random guy says he doesn…

Considering FB's past behaviour (See Cambridge Analytica), the last thing they deserve is good faith treatment.

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#334

Post by [deleted] »

HardlyCurious wrote: post #329
helpfulclippy wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only! The US has been obtaining intelligence information on private citizens globally without cause for decades, and this is well-known. It does this to Americans, Europeans, and pretty much everyone else. When it makes sense to collect that data through its own signals intelligence, it does that. But Constitutional and diplomatic concerns often prevent it from taking such a direct approach. So it relies on privat…

If I would drop a word from 'conspiracy theory' in this case it would be theory, not conspiracy.

[deleted]

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#335

Post by _Algernon_ »

justapassenger wrote: post #322
matheusmoreira wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's fine up to the point where zealousness effectively worsens the life of others, and maybe even more than that, our collective lives. Funny. Facebook's addictive "engagement engineering" was proven to worsen people's mental health in significant and measurable ways. When is that going to stop being fine? When are all the ad tech attention brokers gonna be held accountable? If advertising-driven social media is…

Any addiction is worsening people's mental health. Social media are part of it, sure, but it's naive to think that getting rid of Facebook will solve the problem. Hacker news is also addictive and has lots of people who spend way too much here and it's worsening their mental health.

HN is a poor example, as it actually provides settings to limit addictive usage (maxvisit and minaway), thereby putting the user in control.

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#336

Post by stickfigure »

berkes wrote: post #308
jamiequint wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it's a solution. The developer has a right to comply with the law in whichever way they see to best fit their needs as a business. If you don't like it then don't use the app, nobody is forcing you to and you don't have a right to dictate to others how to run their business.

> you don't have a right to dictate to others how to run their business. Actually, we do. It's called democracy and how laws are made that companies have to adhere to.

Democracy has jurisdictional limitations. Good luck extraditing company owners/managers for the crime of "didn't display a cookie banner".

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#337

Post by dmitriid »

rootusrootus wrote: post #276
Fargren wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not totally sure that's allowed under GDPR. I know you can't say "consent to data collection or you can't use the website" [1]. So I doubt "consent to data collection OR PAY or you can't use the website" is acceptable. [1] unless the data is needed for the website to work

What a world we live in where government has decreed that business must provide services for free. No wonder people vote for that.

> What a world we live in where government has decreed that business must provide services for free.

What the hell are you talking about? You can keep providing ads. If it's a paid service, you can keep providing a paid service. No one is asking you to do stuff for free.

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#338

Post by jsemrau »

hedora wrote: post #59

Cool. So, how does this impact consumers that never used Facebook, but that have shadow profiles for social network inference and ad tracking? Presumably, since Facebook has no way to contact those people, they will just shut down the no-logged-in-but-tracked half of their business in Europe? (If you don't know what I mean by shadow profile: When you first create a Facebook account, it helpfully produces a prepopulat…

Doesn't hurt to surface this video from Germany's CCC again https://media.ccc.de/v/35c3-9941-how_facebook_tracks_you_on_...

I think they established well how this is done and that if you are not a user, they actually collect much more data.

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#339

Post by dmitriid »

boc wrote: post #307
narrator wrote: post #114

Lack of fine-grained tracking makes it hard for small companies to target niche audiences. It tends to favor big brands who can do TV advertising or other highly non-targeted advertising. There was a point in the early 2010s were small consumer brands could break through the noise for cheap and find their audience. With the GDPR and the subsequent fall of facebook ads that era is sadly coming to an end.

Yeah HN is sadly way off-base celebrating this decision. FB/Insta ads were a key catalyst of growth for thousands of startups and small brands in the 2010s. Now it's all back to square one without an easy growth channel to target niche audiences. Enjoy watching Nissan ads on loop.

> FB/Insta ads were a key catalyst of growth for thousands of startups and small brands in the 2010s.

How many of those are genuine brands and startups and not a yet-another front for a multinational conglomerate (or marked up AliExpress pipeline)?

Re: Facebook tracking is illegal in Europe

#340

Post by denton-scratch »

YetAnotherNick wrote: post #330
denton-scratch wrote: post #240

How valuable is "personalized ads"? I can see that there's not much point in serving me ads for e.g. women's clothing, because I'm not a woman. But even if you knew everything I read online, I think you'd be hard-pressed to guess what I want to buy. So I don't believe that advertisers need to know all about me. They just need a few data points: am I a man or a woman, do I ever buy anything (do I have any money), and…

I don’t know if this an real question. Just by knowing you opened HN, I could guess a lot about you. You are much more likely to be interested in tech, a man, work as software developer than an average person. I guess you have good computer or interested in one, you are interested in free cloud credits, you are interested in cool tech products if I could show you one etc.

Heh. So I'm on HN, so I'm some sort of nerd. That's fine; my career was in IT. But not really, you see; I have a few low-spec, low-power GP computers, but they are fine for my needs. If I need to replace one, I know where to go; I don't need signposts. I am deeply uninterested in "the cloud". And not everyone's idea of a "cool tech product" is the same.

I have some halfway decent clothes; but I hardly ever wear them. The stuff I wear is old and faded, and often a bit tattered.

I have as much clutter as I can cope with. I certainly don't have room for more cool gadgets.

I do buy stuff; but not usually because I saw an ad.

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