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Blocking Kiwifarms

blog.cloudflare.com

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Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#331

Post by smcl »

namelessoracle wrote: post #260

The people who pushed for this have a list of the next sites they are going to get taken down. In particular any place TERFs have discussions. I give it 2 years and they will be successful.

They really don't. Keffals, who has been spearheading this effort, has effectively been the target of hate from this one site which has stalked her across two continents. As far as I can tell she just wants to be able to live a normal life without worrying that taking a picture or posting a tweet could be used by this organized mob to figure out where she is and fuck with her life.

It's worth noting that she's based in the UK where it is really mainstream to be a TERF, it's the default position in most tabloids and magazines and plenty of TERF columnists get a lot of column inches to complain to their hearts' content. The likely next Prime Minister recently shouted "A woman is a woman" to screams of delight from a crowd - TERFs are not an oppressed, downtrodden minority there.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#332

Post by thinkingemote »

phillipcarter wrote: post #69
Icathian wrote: post #40

There were no good choices for Cloudflare here, and everyone across the internet who jams their fingers in their ears and shouts their position repeatedly is just contributing to the problem. Private companies should not be the de facto moderators of free speech in our society. They are forced into that position by woefully inadequate governance by legal authorities operating multiple decades behind the current lands…

> I truly hope that those unsatisfied with this outcome (which I suspect will be literally everybody) can take this as an opportunity to go help pressure their respective governments to figure out what the hell should be done, systematically, about hate speech on the internet. It's only 25 years overdue at this point. This is a very good takeaway, as it is a complex problem. But I think in the interim, it's perfectly…

It's fine for a business to do anything but it's not fine for the business to lie and say they are something they are not.

The question therefore becomes at root, are they lying? Is the company actually impartial infrastructure, or are they dishonest.

The past has shown that they are a little unstable in their impartiality.

Personally I'd like to see them making much more decisions to clean up the net but I'd need to see them being honest about it.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#334

Post by TheCondor »

mjr00 wrote: post #173
Icathian wrote: post #40

There were no good choices for Cloudflare here, and everyone across the internet who jams their fingers in their ears and shouts their position repeatedly is just contributing to the problem. Private companies should not be the de facto moderators of free speech in our society. They are forced into that position by woefully inadequate governance by legal authorities operating multiple decades behind the current lands…

> There were no good choices for Cloudflare here 100%. To me this isn't really about KF (which clearly sucks and should be offline, but through actual legal processes), this is a matter of, "When does internet infrastructure end and content moderation begin?" As I mentioned in a previous discussion[0], Cloudflare finds itself right at the blurred edge of this line, made more complicated by CF providing both hosting,…

What would the “legal process” look like?

I put Infowars forward, there has been an actual libel conviction, the perp openly lied in court and was called out by the judge and when it’s all said and done infowars will be doing the same thing and Alex Jones won’t be materially that much poorer, in fact some of the right wing media is calling it an assault on the first amendment and potentially going to market it. (I think it was Kirk on The First that I saw claiming that it was a liberal attack on the first amendment)

Complete and pure free expression seems like a concept for gentlemen and we are very much in a post-gentlemen US right now. I agree that there should be a legal process but by the time it can execute, kiwi farms will have morphed in to something new.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#335

Post by testtest1239 »

tombert wrote: post #312

Good. I'm sorry, I'm generally Mr. "Raw raw free speech", but let's not kid ourselves; by all accounts KiwiFarms is (and always has been) a cesspool of horrible people. It's not like 4chan or something, where it might have started with reasonable intentions and just became horrible; KiwiFarms was started for the specific purpose of bullying Chris-Chan, hence why it was initially called Cwcki Farms. KiwiFarms has been…

Didn’t the swat call announce they were a kf user? Seems a little odd. Moreover, are home addresses of congress people public info? It seems like a lot of people were fine with posting the addresses of Supreme Court members.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#337

Post by kevingadd »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #132

> We are also not taking this action directly because of the pressure campaign. Given their principled stand just two days ago, this sounds like a pretty weak "haha we totally don't cave to pressure, it's just coincidence, so don't think pressure campaigns work on us!" Has Cloudflare proactively blocked any websites without a pressure campaign?

https://www.vice.com/en/article/8xk78x/switter-down-cloudfla... among others

"Cloudflare has been made aware that your site is in violation of our published Terms of Service. Pursuant to our published policy, Cloudflare will terminate service to your website. Cloudflare will terminate your service for switter{.}at by disabling our authoritative DNS."

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#339

Post by stealthygeek »

zozbot234 wrote: post #298
Icathian wrote: post #40

There were no good choices for Cloudflare here, and everyone across the internet who jams their fingers in their ears and shouts their position repeatedly is just contributing to the problem. Private companies should not be the de facto moderators of free speech in our society. They are forced into that position by woefully inadequate governance by legal authorities operating multiple decades behind the current lands…

Clear and present danger is not protected under free speech, and that's exactly what the OP describes.

No post body was provided.

Re: Blocking Kiwifarms

#340

Post by _dain_ »

spamizbad wrote: post #129
Cyberdog wrote: post #49

They muffed it. They were proving to the world how reliable they could be and repairing the damage from the Stormfront debacle, and again they just showed how prone to caving to pressure they can be. What a joke. I will never use CF for anything I want kept online in the face of angry people.

I'm guessing KF members organizing the swatting a US congresswoman (albeit a controversial one) was probably the straw the broke the camel's back. Hard to lobby congress (Which Cloudflare does) when you protect a forum actively swats its members.

>I'm guessing KF members organizing the swatting a US congresswoman

This never happened. It was just blamed on KF by the people currently criminally DDoSing it.

I'm amazed by the credulity and lack of critical thinking in this whole discussion. Nobody seems to have the slightest interest in hearing from KF's point of view ... which is now at any rate impossible because they've been banished from the internet. There are two sides to this conflict and you aren't allowed to hear from one side, so the other side can just relentlessly make shit up, exaggerate, take things out of context, and it will be taken as gospel.

So many comments like "I've never heard of KF before but I looked at this hysterical out of context twitter thread and wow I guess it does need to be censored-via-DDOS".

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