Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

blog.cloudflare.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

331–340 of 1001 posts

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#331

Post by afiori »

derefr wrote: post #54
mschuster91 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the other hand, Cloudflare taking it upon themselves to police the Internet is a nightmare in its own, given their bot-prevention services are effectively mandatory in order to even keep any sort of larger interactive website running. Maybe we should additionally also focus on that problem as well. It should not be the case that you need to pay a protection racket just to be able to survive on the Internet. We d…

A protection racket implies collusion between attacker and defender, where the defender comes to you offering “protection”, but then comes again as an attacker to those who refuse. CloudFlare aren’t a protection racket; they’re just an ordinary for-hire private security service, for businesses in “bad parts of town.” They don’t come to anyone; people come to them. And they have any facility for originating outbound r…

> This is the thing: cutting off diplomatic routes is almost never the right approach, even during a hot war.

The analogous approach would be to speed-limit outbound connections.

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#332

Post by sascha_sl »

Bigpet wrote: post #319
sascha_sl wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, what willful ignorance. KF is the kind of "technically legal" operation that the charge of racketeering was invented for. Everyone knows what's happening and why things are laid out as they are, but nobody immediately responsible for the illegal act can be found.

Then charge them with racketeering. If that doesn't work make the part you don't like illegal. Enshrine something like the "right to be forgotten" stuff into law and make them take down threads if the people they refer to don't want them up. I know it's hard to word something like a "right to be forgotten" without making it to broad and a tool for abuse of chilling speech but it seems worth the effort if the conseque…

I already live in an EU country - as do many of the people with threads on KF. I don't even have the minuscule amount of control voters in the US would have over this, and Cloudflare only cares about US legislation (as with the anti sex work legislation in the article).

If you would stop derailing the conversation with unfeasible solutions.

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#334

Post by DoctorOW »

throwrqX wrote: post #282
sealeck wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They're attacking infrastructure due to political motives. They're attacking KiwiFarms for their agenda of trying to drive people to commit suicide.

Some users of KiwiFarms may have the agenda of wanting to drive people to commit suicide, you seem to be accusing the website as a whole of a) having an agenda and b) that agenda being to drive people to kill themselves What evidence is there for this? I haven't kept up with the website recently, is Null telling people to harass people to death?

> is Null telling people to harass people to death?

I'll treat you as though you're honest, but I might point out this is a dishonest person's favorite argument.

Here's the common answer in Twitter thread form: https://twitter.com/IamRageSparkle/status/128089253502461952...

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#335

Post by patmcc »

>>Just as the telephone company doesn't terminate your line if you say awful, racist, bigoted things

I've been thinking about this for a few days, in regards to all the Kiwi Farms stuff.

Where do we want censorship to happen? It seems like most people agree that "bullying people to suicide" is something we shouldn't tolerate, but where do we stop it? No DNS hosting for them? No CDN, no DDOS protection? Go after their hosting directly? Alternatively, we could start at the other side, build a great firewall and have ISPs route everything through it. Make Apple/Microsoft/etc build "safety" filters that check packets as they leave your computer. Or hell, we're nearly at the stage where a keyboard could have enough processing power to real-time censor what you write. Why not do that?

I wish Kiwi Farms didn't exist, it sounds like a terrible place. I'm not convinced Cloudflare should be in charge of deciding that.

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#336

Post by staringback »

judge2020 wrote: post #156
vorpalhex wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unarmed police shootings are amazingly rare on a yearly basis.

And yet there are compilation videos of streamers being swatted on stream[0]. If someone has an address, all it takes are some anonymous calling techniques / a burner phone to traumatize the occupants by calling in a fake hostage situation or something of that caliber. 0: https://youtu.be/coa7tP54kDY?t=6

Are these people getting shot and killed on their stream? This is not related to the topic.

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#337

Post by BryantD »

karcass wrote: post #325
BryantD wrote: post #320

It's a thoughtful document and I appreciate the time it took to write it. I think there may be a missing factor in their decision-making process. I'll quote the document itself: "We also believe that an Internet where cyberattacks are used to silence what's online is a broken Internet, no matter how much we may have empathy for the ends." That seems correct to me. It is intuitively understandable how it applies to so…

It is not "less clear" how this applies to Kiwifarms. Their TOS says they "may" remove content that: "Is otherwise illegal, harmful, or violates the rights of others, including content that discloses sensitive personal information, incites or exploits violence against people or animals, or seeks to defraud the public." Kiwifarms doxxing and swatting is documented six ways from Sunday, and it's hardly just keffals.

To be perfectly clear about my own bias: I think Kiwifarms is among the worst Web sites on the Internet, I think it's caused immeasurable harm, and I don't want it to exist.

However, I am (probably) talking to people who aren't convinced of this as well as people like you and I, and I also strongly understand the desire to form general principles above and beyond a single person making decisions, so I wanted to come at it from a relatively neutral direction.

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#338

Post by tlonny »

chc wrote: post #306
tlonny wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's your source on the SWAT-ing + death threats originating from Kiwi Farms? My understanding of that website is that it is moderated based on the philosophy of "look, don't touch". Your statement runs contrary to this...

They are the top suspects in the swatting of the Twitch streamer Keffals and Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene just in the past month. There have been many news articles about it — I would suggest Googling and picking the source that seems most credible to you, since I've found linking specific sources tends to lead to people debating the source itself. (I'll be honest, I'm skeptical on the MTG one, but they are still the…

I think expunging a website from the internet for "suspected" involvement in crime is a huge overreach.

I think such a posture would encourage some to commit "false flag" SWAT-ing as a means to silence those they disagree with.

SWAT-ing is a very serious crime, and if they are "top suspects" as you claim, I expect LE would be robustly investigating them.

Thoughts?

Re: Cloudflare's abuse policies and approach

#340

Post by throwrqX »

sealeck wrote: post #150
_-david-_ wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So does Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and every large platform. There is so much harassment, doxing, and other disturbing behavior on all the platforms.

This is a remarkably facile comment; on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram you can find people who aren't out to drive trans people to commit suicide, and content which isn't about how to best call SWAT teams to people's homes. On KiwiFarms, that is all there is.

No post body was provided.
Post reply on HN