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Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

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Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

#331

Post by taneq »

yobbo wrote: post #277
killjoywashere wrote: post #119

EE spent so many years making sure everyone knew it's impossibly hard, the professors eat their young, etc. I've seen this in other professions where the incumbents desperately want to impose, in actuality, the uphill-both-ways life story they believe they endured. And then they are shocked when the young peace out. The military, and their insanely rigorous special warfare training. The medical profession in general.…

If there was lack of supply and excess demand, it would show in higher pay.

You'd think so but it's much cheaper to bemoan a lack of skills than it is to raise salaries.

Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

#332

Post by mathattack »

isbvhodnvemrwvn wrote: post #278
mathattack wrote: post #211

If there’s such a shortage why aren’t EEs paid more than CS grads?

They don't deliver value as rapidly as devs do. Hardware has massive lead time and substantial pre-production costs, can't possibly compete with iteration rate of pure software.

If the higher value work is in SW that explains the shortage.

Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

#333

Post by ghaff »

IshKebab wrote: post #243
imgabe wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true. I went to school for EE, but was interested in Computer Science. There was a stigma to switching from EE to CS as taking an easier course because you couldn't hack it in EE. It was seen as a failure or a defeat. I toughed it out and graduated with an electrical engineering degree, but now I'm a programmer anyway. Wish I had just switched once I realized I liked CS more and saved a bunch of time.

I did a mechanical engineering degree and ended up programming (way better pay) which I already could do before uni. I don't regret it though - it's much much easier to learn programming on your own than other kinds of engineering. E.g. if you got a job doing low level programming, like firmware development or even chip design (basically still programming) your EE knowledge would be very helpful.

Tinkering with hardware at home arguably used to be more accessible to the home tinkerer starting with building Heathkits. But hardware got more complex and faster and the necessary gear etc. sort of got out of reach. Arguably things like Raspberry Pis and Arduinos have made it more accessible again at a different level of abstraction. But I don't think there's much debate that software is easier for someone without the resources of a university or company to work on in general.

Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

#334

Post by TT-392 »

"While computer science course take-up had gone up by over 90 percent in the past 50 years, electrical engineering (EE) had declined by the same amount" Well yes, computer science used to be just a specialization of EE. Not that I don't think the EE scene is a little sad these days (I am currently an EE student) but I think this is important that we don't forget that EE has been split into a bunch of specializations.

Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

#335

Post by airbreather »

I am making a second post here.

Dave Packard once asked in a famous speech, "Why do people form or join companies?"

It's not to make money or create wealth, ultimately. That might be the goal, but not the reason.

It is so they can do things together that they couldn't otherwise do on their own.

Because otherwise they would on their own, you might say.

So if you think about that, that says a lot about what work is.

Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

#336

Post by papito »

dbingham wrote: post #319
christophilus wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand how the market dynamics work here. As a software engineer, I feel like the market is flooded with workers, and that it is an easy job. I have no idea how we’ve managed to sustain these salaries for so long. At some point, I keep expecting a correction in salaries simply due to supply / demand. I also keep thinking, surely other industries will start paying more and treating folks better, so they ca…

Two things - I don't think it's as easy as you think it is. If you're good at it, it can feel comparatively easy, because when you're good at it and you enjoy it - it's fun . It's flow. You get lost in it and don't realize that you were just working flat out for 12 hours. But there are lots of things that are flow that are not easy. I've been coding since I was 12, I have flow days where it's just an absolute pleasur…

Yeah. One thing. I found that if I spend even an hour in the morning on a passion project, before going to work, it really helps me focus on the soul-sucking office task. I don't know why, but that's the case for me.

Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

#337

Post by FuriouslyAdrift »

fxtentacle wrote: post #246
killjoywashere wrote: post #119

EE spent so many years making sure everyone knew it's impossibly hard, the professors eat their young, etc. I've seen this in other professions where the incumbents desperately want to impose, in actuality, the uphill-both-ways life story they believe they endured. And then they are shocked when the young peace out. The military, and their insanely rigorous special warfare training. The medical profession in general.…

In my opinion, the issue is that all of the EE work went to China. It's very difficult to find a company in the west where you could go to do an engineering apprenticeship and learn how to build cool stuff, because all of them outsourced their "building cool stuff" operations years ago. And designing things when you cannot try out your design (or when you need to wait 2 weeks for a parcel from China for each attempt)…

The job I used to do as a C/EE at Intel decades ago is now currently being done by PhD physicists. I think the knowledge requirements have changed quite a bit now that everything is running in quantum level problems.

I still build audio amplifiers, filters, and dabble in RF, but my day job is mostly administrative, now.

Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

#338

Post by moonchrome »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #328
rmbyrro wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may find SE an easy job, but it isn't for most people. It requires above average: - Working memory capacity - Tolerance to extreme frustration, persistence - Ability to learn fast - Capacity to deal with particularly high incidence of imposter syndrome - I could keep going all day... SE is not overpaid. I actually think it's underpaid. Above all, the profession pushes for an early retirement.

>It requires above average: [...] Literally all those traits you listed are needed as an EE(and in many other white collar and blue collar professions too) plus add even more scary stuff like advanced math (for PID tuning, system signal processing, system modelling and simulation, etc.), but for way less pay that even a kid making iOS apps who hasn't passed highschool math can out-earn you. So how is that fair? My ex…

>So how is that fair again?

Kid making iOS apps provides value to more people with almost no cost compared to EE working on his niche product and involving a bunch of other high cost components and capital investment to get to market.

Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

#339

Post by atmosx »

"Classical electrical engineers are trained in design. A small number of designers will be critical. These designers will be highly sought, and handsomely paid. Educators will pride themselves on the demand for the shrinking number of graduates that they produce, while other disciplines will produce growing numbers of informed users who will work at the application levels. Electrical engineering will be in danger of shrinking into a neutron star of infinite weight and importance, but invisible to the known universe." Robert E. Lucky, 1998

Source: http://www.boblucky.com/reflect/may98.htm via

Re: Electrical engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

#340

Post by est31 »

dougabug wrote: post #272
est31 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There will be, but right now software is eating the world (and establishing entire new markets) faster than developer talent enters the market. So prices for developers go up. Eventually this will end, either by the demand curve slowing down, or developer supply meeting demand. Whether it happens within the next 5 or 10, or even 20 years, who knows.

This saturation of demand for software talent has been predicted for literally decades. In 1992, Ed Yourdon published “Decline and Fall of the American Programmer,” only to reverse himself four years later with the publication of “Rise and Resurrection of the American Programmer.” If anything, the rate at which capable software professionals can create value has dramatically increased over time. Software is not a zer…

Frontier is a good term because just as the US frontier age eventually ended, the software frontier expansion is also eventually going to stop.
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