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The SQLite Code of Ethics

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Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#331

Post by naniwaduni »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #328

So I am intrigued by the idea of the Axial Age transition - roughly 500BC and worlds big population centres (India China Persia) hit some kind of population tipping point, developed massive abusive slavery and wars and then developed much more restrictive religions as a means to control the larger populations. The argument is tenuous but it reminds me a lot of the Shakespeare / Lope de Vega transition- sometimes popu…

It's, in brief, the sort of pseudo-anthropology that's very appealing to systematizing minds, but falls apart immediately when you have to engage with the fact that the cultures in questions did not have remotely similar experiences at that time—it's telling that you seized on "big population centres (India China Persia)" in particular. But you have to squint really hard to make them look similar.

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#332

Post by naniwaduni »

tootie wrote: post #226
verytrivial wrote: post #222

This sort of thing used to annoy me in my youth. But there is a lot of good stuff in there. These are directions on how YOU should live your life, so strike out as appropriate. SQLite is great and if pondering these rules helped, only a fool would avoid pondering them out of spite.

But they could just strike all the ones that mention god and hell and not lost anything of value. I also think the morality only rings true if you were raised in a Christian dominated society. No one living in the real world can afford to love their enemies. That's what people in monasteries can say but not ones who are responsible for protecting people.

Well, it would lose the value of being nominally attributable to a 1500yo monastic document. This might not make a difference to you if you don't acknowledge the the provenance (nor, heck, if you think the provenance is shot in translation), but on net it probably matters a lot more that the small number of people agreeing to the document, presumably none of whom are you, do.

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#333

Post by kennywinker »

kragen wrote: post #235
kennywinker wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did learn a bunch, I went on a bit of a dive refreshing what I knew about the MPI and Heisenberg. Interesting stuff. But back to your point. Your point was made using two examples. Bad examples, in my opinion, since the first doesn't apply (consumption of work vs collaboration) and the second one also doesn't apply (building on others work vs collaboration). Your further point about watching what people do vs what…

You seem to have me confused with someone else.

Yes you’re quite right - I didn’t notice that that reply wasn’t from you.

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#334

Post by actually_a_dog »

thaneross wrote: post #329
actually_a_dog wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems to be a blatant mischaracterization: > Scope: > This Code of Conduct applies within all community spaces, and also applies when an individual is officially representing the community in public spaces. Examples of representing our community include using an official e-mail address, posting via an official social media account, or acting as an appointed representative at an online or offline event. https://w…

Up to version 1.3 the covenant didn't have a section limiting scope. 1.4 introduced it along with a loophole: > Representation of a project may be further defined and clarified by project maintainers. Eg, if you say something the maintainers don't like on your personal Twitter, all they need to say is "you're representing the project in a bad light" and it's fair game to ban you. Then in version 2.0 the text you quot…

Have you raised your concern with anyone who can do anything about it?

In any case, I fail to see how this is any worse than any other project. Do you expect some sort of due process before you're banned from any random OSS project? I wouldn't. If you don't like it, you can fork the project. That's how it works.

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#335

Post by FeepingCreature »

krainboltgreene wrote: post #234
FeepingCreature wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With good modding, no code is needed. And with bad modding, the best code imaginable can achieve nothing. It is all down to the quality of the modding.

> With good modding, no code is needed This is nonsensicle and shows a lack of understanding. A code of conduct is just a guidebook for users to understand how your moderators will act, what to expect in a community. How does "good modding" remove the need for that?

I guess I agree with that. But then there's still no point in using a prefabricated code. The code should be a README, a guide for users to predict mod behavior. An aid to the primary modding tool.

Moderation starts and ends with the mods, not with the CoC. The CoC just saves labor.

Using a prefabricated CoC is what you do when you need to fulfill a checkbox item saying "has a CoC", but have no intention of actually following it.

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#336

Post by strager »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #209
strager wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> far more people have suffered Compared to what?

Compared to modern sensibilities like equality for women, prohibition of slavery, trial by a jury of peers, medicine based on evidence, etc.

Christians and their faith lead the slavery prohibition movement.

I don't know the history of the other things you mentioned.

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#337

Post by kennywinker »

kragen wrote: post #232
kennywinker wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Could J. K. Rowling require Harry Potter readers to follow a code of conduct? Nobody attempts to apply codes of conduct to users of software - that's the domain of the license agreement. They only apply to communities. Virtually every online community around harry potter has some set of rules for participating in that community. e.g. https://stories.jkrowling.com/terms-of-use/ > Could Werner Heisenberg demand that…

I'm glad you started to pick up on the subtle point about Heisenberg, but it sounds like you stopped halfway. What would be the consequences of allowing Heisenberg to dictate codes of conduct for quantum physicists today, or Wagner to dictate codes of conduct for performers of his operas? I addressed the point about when codes of conduct apply to users of software in the document linked.

> What would be the consequences of allowing Heisenberg to dictate codes of conduct for quantum physicists today

He couldn’t. All he could do would be to dictate the code of conduct for physicists working at the MPI. And if you don’t like his code of conduct, you can go to a different institute, or take it up with the community or the board of directors for the institute. Your implied scenario of “what if a nazi wrote a code of conduct” doesn’t scare me because the only thing worse than a nazi is a nazi in hiding. And if the code of conduct contains no nazi agenda, well then he can be held accountable if he does something against the code of conduct (like, for example, being a nazi)

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#338

Post by FeepingCreature »

tehjoker wrote: post #267
FeepingCreature wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a license to be intolerant, if only you can convince people that your opponents were intolerant first.

Welcome to the messy uncodifiable reality of ethics and politics. You can pick a practical code with an exploit or you can pick one that lets you be cut down by anyone that doesn't go along with it.

Or you can try to fix the exploit. At least you can try to notice when people are exploiting it in the wild, which is to a first approximation "every time somebody cites the Paradox of Tolerance".

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#339

Post by FeepingCreature »

Spivak wrote: post #165
FeepingCreature wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With good modding, no code is needed. And with bad modding, the best code imaginable can achieve nothing. It is all down to the quality of the modding.

The whole point of having a code is to be a thing those mods can point to to justify the banhammer when people complain. Everyone has a CoC, some people write them down.

Well, I just think that's a bit misleading.

The justification for the banhammer is "I think you should be banned." The CoC doesn't enable or permit the mods to ban you. The mods can ban you because they're the mods; "can ban you" is pretty much definitionally identical to "is a mod." At most a CoC can serve as a guidebook for users.

Re: The SQLite Code of Ethics

#340

Post by philwelch »

fooey wrote: post #122
logifail wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a set of beliefs The elephant in the room in many current attempts to encourage "diversity" is that a genuinely diverse range of opinions and/or beliefs ends up being not welcome at all.

Paradox of Tolerance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance > The paradox of tolerance states that if a society is tolerant without limit, its ability to be tolerant is eventually seized or destroyed by the intolerant. Karl Popper described it as the seemingly self-contradictory idea that in order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must retain the right to be intolerant of intolerance.

What Popper probably meant was something more akin to, “don’t be a pacifist when people are starting to resort to violence”. At least that’s my reading.

It’s also interesting that the more extreme version of the “paradox of tolerance” is very close to the legal reasoning used during the Red Scare to justify bans on communist parties.

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