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Google says US employees can relocate to states with abortion rights

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Re: Google says US employees can relocate to states with abortion rights

#331
post #242
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I moved to Fort Worth a long time ago for work, we had a 1 year old. I didn't really like the idea of him going to school with kids... lets say, of the "Texas mentality", but was really just using the job as a stepping stone to get out of my home state and hoped to be in CA before he'd reach school age. The first week there we met a family that had also just moved from a northern state and ended up hanging out with t…

I can empathize. As an early teen, my family moved from a major US city to the rural midwest which is filled with "blue collar born and bred Americans." I was immediately bombarded with a strict Christian and puritan-like culture in high school. I grew up in a Catholic household but I had never experienced the intensity of a group of kids following their parents upbringing to a tee. They hated anyone who had longer h…

> Over 20 years later and I can't shake the uneasy feeling that seemingly well-intentioned people seek to eradicate uniqueness in humanity.

It's because there's a self-perpetuating safety in it. This is one of the functions of religion: it benefits its in-group by giving them rules about the "right" way to behave, and those rules coincidentally favor conservative behaviors that have the side effect of stamping out individuality and making everything more "the same." And the self-perpetuating part is that groups of people engaging in more conservative, safer behavior thrive (at the expense of individualism). It's compounded by the fact that there's a moral judgment attached to your behaviors, which means it behooves people to be outwardly conforming in order to signal their inclusion in the morally superior group. Long hair on a boy? Well that sure is different, and as everyone knows, different is bad.

Re: Google says US employees can relocate to states with abortion rights

#332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This strikes me as wildly implausible. The US broadly has very permissive abortion laws compared to most of Europe, but I have never once heard of anyone migrating to the US over greater abortion access. It's always economic/opportunity concerns. Going further back, during the Soviet era when abortion was widespread (i.e. 2-3 abortions per live birth in the 60s-70s), did anyone want to migrate to the Eastern bloc for…

> The US broadly has very permissive abortion laws compared to most of Europe a) I assume you're talking about the past, and not the future. b) The issue is less that our laws are restrictive , and more that they're written in a capricious, illogical, incomplete, and ignorant way. What do you think is going to happen to people with emergency reproductive conditions (e.g. late stage ectopic pregnancies) when doctors h…

I removed my original reply upon realization the poster to whom I responded was likely too angry for debate given the tone of the parent post, which I re-read after sending mine. Perhaps the news is too recent and more time is needed for conversation, I thought. It seems that I was entirely correct...

Below is my reply, which I am re-writing for context, and I will have to encroach on everyone's trust that what I write below completely represents the original. Whether I am a "moron and/or a monster" I will leave for you all to decide.

I will say, though, that for Americans, the abortion issue is out of the courts and in the purview of federal and state legislatures. We need to have these conversations sooner than later, if not now. There is a real concern about maternal health and freedom, just as there is one about rights to life and protection in utero.

___

I am speaking about the past and present. One should be skeptical of predictions about the future.

The motivation for the decision process you describe is fear. Fear or harm, fear of death. Fear itself is irrational (I do not mean this in a pejorative sense) but powerful emotion, but it is not one that I believe motivates people when they are trying to have children. Pregnancy can have many complications that can be debilitating or even fatal (depression, internal bleeding, sepsis, hormonal dysfunction, and so on), and lack of access to abortion in the case of ectopic pregnancy, for example, is only of many factors that would weight against a potential pregnancy. If lack of access over abortion is an overriding fear for women looking to have children, I suspect that fear could just as easily be replaced by other non-abortion-related dangers. Becoming a parent can be scary, and perhaps now isn't the right time. Maybe later.

Also, I want to stress the earlier point I made about living under laws, good or bad. Women bear children because they want them. I believe this to broadly be true, but the case is especially strong in societies where abortion and more importantly contraception are available. Women bear children because they want to raise them, watch them grow, and start families of their own. Should any complications arise from pregnancy, one adapts and lives with them. Despite the risks, which historically had been far graver until very recently, over 7 billion of us exist. I believe that red state or blue state, abortion or no, people will continue to have children, and they will do so in whatever state they are able to raise them. While it is certainly understandable for women, especially if sexually active, who don't yet want to have children to avoid moving to states with outright abortion bans rather than restrictions to the 1st trimester, I doubt it will be an important consideration for those who want to have them.

To your specific point, if laws are so poorly written that they endanger women's lives, such as in ectopic pregnancies, then I expect the laws will change in response to outrage over deaths. Laws that affect people's lives are unavoidable but can unfortunately cause that to happen (e.g. raising speed limits, drug testing requirements, etc.). However, I am not so pessimistic that to believe that no law can be written as a reasonable compromise. And I never would be so pessimistic so as to give up entirely on elected legislatures and instead choose to live under the fiat of judges in hope that their decisions are optimal. There is certainly precedent for courts to make (very recently, in many eyes) stupidly written, poorly reasoned decisions.

Re: Google says US employees can relocate to states with abortion rights

#333

The migration pattern in the nation seems to be: 1. Going to your super cool tech job in California when you get out of college. 2. After that, you get older and want to buy a house and settle down, and not pay state income tax, and so you move out to a red state to work remote and turn it blue with all the love of diversity picked up in California. Strict abortion laws might serve as somewhat of a barrier to this so…

> and turn it blue with all the love of diversity picked up in California. No thanks. Stay in California, please. I like Texas as it is. Texas will likely, eventually, end up passing some sort of abortion laws similar to what European nations have - no abortions after 12 weeks, abortions in case of incest / rape, etc. Frankly, I'd prefer to see Congress get off their ass and do their job and work together on federal…

What would be the legal basis for a Federal abortion law? I can’t think of any that seems likely to not be struck down by the current Supreme Court.

Re: Google says US employees can relocate to states with abortion rights

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Eh I guess that's kinda what they did.

No, it's not what they did, quite the opposite. Their account is almost two years old, yet that was their first post ever.

What they should have done was to continue to not post telling other people what they should not discuss.

They were doing just fine for almost two years not commenting on discussions they were not interested in or telling people what not to talk about, and they should have continued that trend instead of spoiling it.

It's always the ones who have reprehensible unjustifiable politics they don't want to discuss, who can't tolerate other people discussing politics.

Re: Google says US employees can relocate to states with abortion rights

#335
post #231
post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it does, it’s a terrible thing to do. We close our eyes, we don’t see it’s there, we pretend it doesn’t matter, we call it clump of cells, we call advocates ’pro choice’. Let’s face it, it’s the killing of a human, that have no voice, no choice in the matter.

https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/the-bruce-effe... If animals do it in nature, and humans do it with dangerous methods when denied access to safe methods, it's going to be with us until the end of time, regardless of law. Let's face it, this is just another drug war. An opportunity for Republicans to deny Americans personal autonomy and liberty. A justification for state aggression against your neighbors…

Monkeys also engage in cannibalism, sometimes even of their own dead young, and lions regularly commit infanticide. Appeals to nature are not compelling in the slightest when it comes to morality.

Re: Google says US employees can relocate to states with abortion rights

#336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally. It's batsh*t crazy. Don't worry though, the favorability of these partisan companies are at the lowest they've ever been. These companies will learn the hard way and it's gonna be so much fun to watch. It's just a matter of time before better alternatives come out and destroy these companies. As soon as there's true alternatives, people will switch.

Can't wait to spend my ad dollars on Parler! /ffs

Facebook is not a real business. it’s just manipulated money. That’s why their stock fell by 50% in like 24 hours. Parler is a social media app. Truth is a social media app. Not a leftist organization that makes money by data harvesting and letting companies incite violence by letting them pay to promote shit. You’re comparing apples to broccoli. People want genuine places of discussions, not advertising companies.

Re: Google says US employees can relocate to states with abortion rights

#338
post #321
post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

I never said to wait and see about anything. I am saying to do something about this step that is actually happening. Not about some hypothetical step that may or may not happen in the future. As for being hysterical, it's never ok. It accomplishes nothing. Goalposts stable enough, for you?

Literally talking to you and trying to get you convinced that things are at stake is doing something. I'm also active in my local community trying to change things.

Why can't I do both? It's not one or the other.

That's another problem y'all folks have beyond goalposts, you think we can't both talk and do.

We have to raise awareness, and do. Especially with how stacked the legislative is in our country to favor minority tyranny. We have to do more than be a majority, we have to be a damn super majority or more. It sucks, but we'll keep fighting.

The thing is, it's your feeling that it's hysterical, for others it's foresight. That's the thing we're talking about. Real people are going to suffer because of the decision today, that's not hysteria. If you think it is, go talk to a rape victim who is pregnant and has to carry to term.

Hell, go talk to folks who lived in the times before these "possible to overturn next" decisions happened and ask about their horror stories.

You're being dismissive because either you're ignorant of the consequences, or worse, you don't care.

And by the way, that's not a goalpost, that's a vague thing you said "I feel X is hysteria, hysteria bad". Commit to something being too far, like a real thing. Otherwise each time something happens you'll say we don't need to be worried yet.

Re: Google says US employees can relocate to states with abortion rights

#339

Quoted post unavailable.

It's not a baby, it's a clump of cells just like the many most people shell or push out of their penis after a good wank.

We're all literally a clump of cells. Sperm doesn't grow into humans on their own. It boils down to personhood, and whether fetuses and embryos are people. On a base gut feeling, I think fetuses and embryos deserve human rights as well.

Re: Google says US employees can relocate to states with abortion rights

#340

Google should let their employees work wherever they want. Why constrain people. Just go remote.

Unpopular opinion here, but I'm pro-life and am considering moving to full remote to get out of states that allow unrestricted late term abortions. In my view, systemic killing of unborn people [1] is up there with slavery and Jim Crow in the worst parts of American history and culture. I have Quaker culture in my family going way back. It'd be nice to be able to vote with my feet on some of these things. If course,…

> I'm pro-life and am considering moving to full remote to get out of states that allow unrestricted late term abortions.

Are you worried you'll accidentally have an abortion if you live where it's legal? Or do you just prefer to be physically farther away when other people do it?

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