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Why Google is so unbearable, and how to fix it

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Re: Why Google is so unbearable, and how to fix it

#331

Post by sph »

jszymborski wrote: post #274
Doctor_Fegg wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're not going to do a metered plan. From an email sent today: > Kagi will come as a free version with limited use; and an unlimited use, paid option at $10 a month, both versions having great search results with less spam and completely ad-free, tracking free, and with none of your search data being retained

Awesome! I was just going off of their FAQ https://kagi.com/faq#cost

I sent the founder an email asking for clarification, he replied with "$10/mo is what we decided to use. FAQ needs an update."

Re: Why Google is so unbearable, and how to fix it

#332

Post by freediver »

Doctor_Fegg wrote: post #273
jszymborski wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really like what I've read about Kagi, and I'll likely end-up paying for it too, but I _hate_ the metered fee. I've never run a search engine, but I don't imagine that offering "Unlimited" searches where "unlimited" means "do not abuse" would meaningfully hurt their margins. As a benefit, you avoid losing customers that then need to ask "Do I make more than 5*80 searches a month? How many is that a day? What do I i…

They're not going to do a metered plan. From an email sent today: > Kagi will come as a free version with limited use; and an unlimited use, paid option at $10 a month, both versions having great search results with less spam and completely ad-free, tracking free, and with none of your search data being retained

Sorry for the confusion, we have not updated the FAQ yet. We are going to try with a flat fee ($10/mo) model.

(kagi founder here)

Re: Why Google is so unbearable, and how to fix it

#333

Post by Gunax »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #169
baxuz wrote: post #77

It's not a Google problem, it's a web problem. Everything is based around SEO spam. If someone has a website, and they're producing content, their point is to monetize the browsing of the website itself, or promote their main product via the website. This incentivizes a certain kind of content, which is marketing content. These days I'm back to searching social networks like Reddit or Hacker News for (at least somewh…

The other side of the coin is that users are so used to the "free" model (read: ad model) that they refuse to pay for anything directly. Look at youtube. They show ads and there is a non-stop stream of complaints about how long/bad/annoying they are. They offer a paid subscription to remove all ads and people laugh at the audacity youtube has to ask for money. Users DO NOT want to see/watch ads. Users DO NOT want to…

YT Premium is expensive. Much more expensive than users expect.

Most people underestimate the value of their attention. Youtube earned 7 billion USD in ad revenue last quarter.

The value of our attention is a shock to most people. I suspect that YouTube may actually be losing money (as compared to ad revenue), even at the $12 / month--a price many users find outrageous.

I am calling this the 'ad gap', which is difference between what an advertiser is willing to pay, and what the user is willing to pay to avoid the ad.

One way to look at it is that users are irrational. But it can also be seen as a testament to the effectiveness of advertising.

Re: Why Google is so unbearable, and how to fix it

#334

Post by nabakin »

trhoad wrote: post #318

Err, what? .edu is a TLD for US based educational bodies. So the reason you don't see a cookie banner is because the majority (AFAIK) of US states don't mandate a cookie banner, unlike EU and UK based sites (like the Natural History Museum, based in the UK). Does this mean the Natural History Museum is a less authoritative resource than anywhere else? I'd say the opposite, actually. And for the "change a tire" exampl…

You're annoyed with him because his target audience is only the United States?

Why stop at British people? I can't believe this guy didn't consider Japanese-speaking people! Why didn't OP make an article for Chinese people?! Wow, can you believe OP didn't make an article for every single possible person on the planet?

Honestly, you make a good point at the start but I don't understand your rage at the end there.

Re: Why Google is so unbearable, and how to fix it

#335

Post by thatguy0900 »

colordrops wrote: post #257
l33t2328 wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Frankly, if it’s not reliable as a tool, it has no real value This is exactly the ridiculous kind of hyperbole I come to HN for. If you honestly can’t find any value in using Google despite its unreliability, you were probably expecting too much of it to begin with.

Your expectations are too low. We all remember google in it's heyday when it returned honest results, so we know what's possible.

I wonder if google could even return to its heyday if it wanted. Even if they stopped playing dumb games with search there a alot more malicious actors whose entire career is to fuck up search results now.

Re: Why Google is so unbearable, and how to fix it

#336

Post by thunderbong »

DharmaPolice wrote: post #321
makecheck wrote: post #138

Well whether you add “site:.edu” or not, Google still does the thing where they just spit out a pile of extra “matches” that don’t contain your search phrase AT ALL . Just thrown into the list, as if they have any business being there (oh wait, they do have business: Google’s business). Frankly, if it’s not reliable as a tool, it has no real value and I can’t believe it has come to this. Imagine if every time you ran…

Unfortunately the fuzzy search thing is in a kind of feedback loop in terms of user expectation. Because of Google users are used to typing the wrong thing and getting the right answer. If I search for "how old is Roger Redford" Google tells me that Robert Redford was born in 1936 (it doesn't even display the "Did you mean...?" correction). And to be fair, in 99% of cases the person probably did mean Robert Redford.…

Google is 24 years old. They track everything from email to searches to website behaviour across innumerable sites.

If they still need a feedback loop on their search results page, maybe they should hire some other guys to tweak their search engine!

Re: Why Google is so unbearable, and how to fix it

#337

Post by Jtype »

qgin wrote: post #206
drstewart wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reddit has very strong biases and its own bubbles as well. Don't expect to be exposed to a wide variety of viewpoints there, but what appeals to a very narrow demographic (18-30 year old low-income white progressive American males)

True, but at least it’s content written humans in good faith and not just SEO bait.

Except for all the bots.

Re: Why Google is so unbearable, and how to fix it

#338

Post by pmoriarty »

the_snooze wrote: post #294
makecheck wrote: post #138

Well whether you add “site:.edu” or not, Google still does the thing where they just spit out a pile of extra “matches” that don’t contain your search phrase AT ALL . Just thrown into the list, as if they have any business being there (oh wait, they do have business: Google’s business). Frankly, if it’s not reliable as a tool, it has no real value and I can’t believe it has come to this. Imagine if every time you ran…

It's not just search. It's so much user-facing interactivity online. Stop black-box-inserting irrelevant search results. Stop black-box-modifying what I type in the document. Stop black-box-suggesting-as-I-type. Stop black-box-second-guessing what I meant. I'm a perfectly capable human who can communicate my intent, and make corrections on my own if needed. What kind of deranged hubris must these engineers have to bu…

Also, I wish Google could simply deliver the information I want without tracking me or gathering information about me, my interests, communication, travel, searches, or contacts.

Google should respect their users' privacy.

Re: Why Google is so unbearable, and how to fix it

#339

Post by Melatonic »

monkpit wrote: post #330
nabakin wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my case quotes still work but they aren't as good as they once were

Quotes haven’t worked for about 10 years now. For my job in 2012 I very often had to google obscure part numbers to find documentation. Even if you added quotes to the part number (such as “foo123-x”, google would return results for “foo234-x” or “foo123-y” and bold them as if they had matched. The real part numbers could be 10-20 characters long, so it was more difficult to spot discrepancies. I learned very quickly…

You have to both quote the term(s) and then check the box for "verbatim". Then it should generally work. Have you all tried doing both at once?

edit: It is a pain in the ass though

Re: Why Google is so unbearable, and how to fix it

#340

Post by deltree7 »

rg111 wrote: post #214
baxuz wrote: post #77

It's not a Google problem, it's a web problem. Everything is based around SEO spam. If someone has a website, and they're producing content, their point is to monetize the browsing of the website itself, or promote their main product via the website. This incentivizes a certain kind of content, which is marketing content. These days I'm back to searching social networks like Reddit or Hacker News for (at least somewh…

> It's not a Google problem Oh it is definitelt a Google problem. I was in mood yesterday and I tried Google versus Kagi and You Code. Results of N out of N queries in other search engines were miles better in other search engines than Google. I have now switched completely to code.you.com and Kagi from Google. They are ready.

Incredibly dumb and naive to assume that if Kagi becomes even remotely successful, the SEO bandwagon will not target them.
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