Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why All Cryptocurrency Should Die in a Fire

currentaffairs.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

331–340 of 341 posts

Re: Why All Cryptocurrency Should Die in a Fire

#331

Post by Bud »

fartcannon wrote: post #288
polygamous_bat wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple, along with a bunch of upstream suppliers, brings together some glass, some plastic, some metal, and create an iPhone out of it. The value of an iPhone is greater than the value of the raw materials. Thus, it's a positive sum game. Same goes for owning a stake in Apple the company. One person buys a Bitcoin that another person sold, which is zero sum. But miners burned real energy paid with not-Bitcoin to proce…

Ok, Im not sure why youve chosen Apple but I'll bite. Those resources aren't actually renewable. And mining that stuff certainly costs the environment more than the value of this conversation we are having on those devices warrants. And at the end they're tossed in landfills. You might disagree, but so would a crypto enthusiast. I do understand your point though I think. Waste in general is bad.

Aluminum is renewable. So is glass, of course. And no, Apple is actually doing all they can to keep old iPhones from being tossed in landfills, including designing custom robots to disassemble them so that the components can then at least theoretically be recycled.

You don't need to mine more aluminum if you're able to use recycled aluminum in your products. And Apple does.

So Apple is perhaps not the best choice of a company to pick on in this particular part of the argument.

Re: Why All Cryptocurrency Should Die in a Fire

#332

Post by Bud »

olalonde wrote: post #266
fartcannon wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are all these crypto bros that everyone seems so upset about?

Also, it seems like sexist language is OK now?

Please don't even start with that. Just don't. Trust me. And no, it's not sexist.

Re: Why All Cryptocurrency Should Die in a Fire

#333

Post by cableshaft »

polygamous_bat wrote: post #223
doomroot wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to break this too you but bitcoin would need to be banned by a serious amount of governments to have any real effect on energy consumption. This is by design. The wiser policy choice is to incentivize the large mining farms in your country to mine on renewables and let a digital gold exist. The point of (good) cryptocurrencies is that they require real energy to coerce. Because of this I’ve felt safe keeping sa…

> bitcoin would need to be banned by a serious amount of governments to have any real effect on energy consumption What's your reason behind believing that? From what I know , Bitcoin mining fell 50% when China banned it [1]. How would that not be similar if the US + EU just bans it tomorrow? [1] https://www.theblockcrypto.com/post/109315/bitcoin-hashrate-...

Temporarily dropped 50%, then the miners moved to new countries and it's almost completely back to its hash rate from before the China ban now (probably has by now, the article below is from Dec 2021).

https://www.coindesk.com/tech/2021/12/09/bitcoin-hashrate-ap...

Re: Why All Cryptocurrency Should Die in a Fire

#334

Post by Sargos »

MrMan wrote: post #136
xalava wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The importance of privacy is not theoretical. First, the data is accessible by credit card provider, but also by several financial and technical intermediaries. Second, there is no way for any of those companies to guarantee that the data will never be leaked. Then, in terms of consequences, it includes reputional risks, security risks people know your behavior patterns, and to be arrested for being at the wrong plac…

the impossibility of privacy is also not theoretical.

> the impossibility of privacy is also not theoretical.

In that it's proven possible and how the world worked for thousands of years. The existence of KYC/AML and the ability of the state to surveil their population's financial transactions is very new and less than a human lifetime old. It's not necessary and privacy is definitely not impossible.

Re: Why All Cryptocurrency Should Die in a Fire

#335

Post by saurik »

lrvick wrote: post #39
saurik wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they can't be activated until after you identify yourself to their website.

You are thinking of reloadable ones. Non-reloadable visa gift cards can be purchased with cash at any corner store at values up to $500 each and require no identification.

I really, truly, do not believe this is correct. I looked into it quite hard recently and I simply couldn't figure out a way to pull it off (and I even actively attempted to look for ones that did not support being reloaded). FWIW, I do believe this product existed a decade ago, but I simply can't find it anymore. Would you mind providing some kind of link to recent discussion of some specific such a product (not even as much to "prove you are right" but "to help me out" ;P)?

Re: Why All Cryptocurrency Should Die in a Fire

#336

Post by FabHK »

tejohnso wrote: post #213
wlll wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm rather mistrustful of people that are this forthy about being against a new technology. I don't really give a crap about what people do or don't do with new technology, ultimately what people want to spend their time and money on is up to them. However, "Crypto" is different. If all it was was just the unbelievably irritating crypto bros rug pulling, ponzi scheming, wash trading, ugly NFT shilling and hacking a…

> But "Crypto" (specifically the energy intensive kind) has a different problem, and that's that it has /massive/ externalities that it simply ignores, forcing us, the people who want nothing to do with it, to now deal with it Grossly inefficient personal transportation and industrial farming have massive externalities forcing people who want nothing to do with it to deal with it. That doesn't seem to be a concern th…

> Grossly inefficient personal transportation and industrial farming have massive externalities forcing people who want nothing to do with it to deal with it. That doesn't seem to be a concern that matters to most people.

But it is a concern, and it is being tackled in many places: gasoline is taxed very heavily. Farm subsidies are being reduced.

Just because not all externalities have been fully internalised yet, doesn't mean PoW with its massive externalities is fine.

Re: Why All Cryptocurrency Should Die in a Fire

#337

Post by FabHK »

G3rn0ti wrote: post #275
wlll wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you honestly blaming cryptocurrencies for climate change, inflation and Russia‘s war against Ukraine? That’s crazy. No, I don't think you understood what I wrote. > Climate change is a long running issue that started waaay before Bitcoin even was invented. What's your point here? Climate change has been around for ages so it's OK to blow a load of electricity on something that's not particularly useful? > Still…

> What's your point here? Climate change has been around for ages so it's OK to blow a load of electricity on something that's not particularly useful? So shall we stop inventing technology that draws power because it’s bad for the environment? I mean Bitcoin isn’t consuming electricity just for fun. People use Bitcoin and that’s why it consumes power. Like people using air conditioning, fridges, washing machines and…

> I mean Bitcoin isn’t consuming electricity just for fun.

Not exactly for fun, but sort of: frivolously, needlessly, and with an arms race dynamic: Put in 1000x more energy, and you get - exactly the same result, because the algorithm adjusted the Proof of Waste to make it 1000x more wasteful.

Re: Why All Cryptocurrency Should Die in a Fire

#338

Post by FabHK »

G3rn0ti wrote: post #312
wlll wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So shall we stop inventing technology that draws power because it’s bad for the environment? That wasn't my argument. My argument was that Bitcoin etc. are bad because of the power they consume when as far as I can tell almost all of what happens on these blockchains can be done far more efficiently and faster on existing technology, or in the case of transactions, existing banking infrastructure. > People use Bitc…

> We don't need Bitcoin. It hasn't enabled anything that couldn't be done already using the banking system, or with existing non-power abusive technology. The advantage of Bitcoin may seem questionable if you believe dependency on central banking is fine and hedging against financial risks of traditional banks is silly. But mind you there are many people in the world without access to stable banking services. > If we…

> And do you know what services had similar energy consumption in the past and nobody cared? Peer to peer file sharing like Bitorrent.

Source? I am pretty sure that is not the case. Not by a mile. You don't seem to understand the scale of PoW energy waste.

Re: Why All Cryptocurrency Should Die in a Fire

#339

Post by FabHK »

johnwheeler wrote: post #307
ephbit wrote: post #149

> WEAVER: Yes. So let’s take the cost of a transaction. The cost of a transaction in cryptocurrency systemically is the amount being used to protect it. I could build a system that would have the same throughput as Bitcoin, three to seven transactions per second, but with a centralized trusted entity. In fact, not even a centralized trusted entity. Ten trusted entities, only six of which need to be honest, because I…

It’s always “what they don’t understand”. Here’s the facts: there are two types of people in this world, and which you are has nothing to do with intelligence. You either participate in these types of activities, and you always have and always will, or you don’t, never have, and never will. It’s like it’s some weird quirk in human nature where God said, 50% of the people have to be this way and 50% have to be that wa…

You could map those two kinds of people maybe by how they would act in a prisoners' dilemma. Cooperate, so that everyone is better off long term, or just think of themselves shortsightedly, no matter the externalities.

Re: Why All Cryptocurrency Should Die in a Fire

#340

Post by Handytinge »

polygamous_bat wrote: post #274
JonathanBeuys wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to forget that but to show that. On a linear scale it is hard to see.

So your argument is crypto is having a full meltdown every other week/month? That is hardly the praise you think it is.

It's hardly a "full meltdown" if it's happening every other month, is it? At this stage, it's an expected range of volatility.
Post reply on HN