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EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

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Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#331

Post by woah »

Tade0 wrote: post #130
pantalaimon wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? It's the most efficient use of resources and allows for some great cultural and public infrastructure to exist that just doesn't make sense without density.

Is efficiency for the sake of efficiency worth it though? There's a second order effect I observed which I feel isn't discussed enough: when it's assumed that you can only walk/cycle or perhaps take the bus in an area, suddenly there's an additional premium imposed on space. The net result is accelerated gentrification. Anecdata: just about anyone I know from my generation was priced out of those walkable districts w…

What a ridiculous take. Walkable districts are a good thing, and instead of building more, you want to ban them?

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#332

Post by oauea »

Freak_NL wrote: post #47

It's scary, because CSAM (child sexual abuse material) is very, very broad, and quite vague in its definition¹. My three year old son stayed with my parents for a week, and he was being taught to swim in their swimming pool. Of course, I get sent pictures and clips of his progress by a proud grandma, and of course, him being a toddler, he felt swimming trunks to be completely optional (and of course, they are at his…

> and nudism of any minor can be seen as CSAM if the pose they strike can be construed as 'erotic'

So we're now expected to teach our kids what erotic poses are so they know not to accidentally do that during family pics, lest daddy or mommy wind up in jail? The future is fucked up.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#333

Post by [deleted] »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #306
stjohnswarts wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the EU wants to go through easy to rummage through stuff like email, texts, instant messenger (all easy to go through if unencrypted). I think that's what their warning shot is. Eventually they would like to put spyware in every app/phone and keep tabs on what you're doing. It's the same in America as well. Politician and the police state have no shame when it comes to wanting to take away your privacy "to th…

Seriously, if you start with "I think EU is turning into Sauron",you then can imply everything, you'll be mostly wrong though. > I think that's what their warning shot is These arguments have been in discussion for at least a decade. Why do you think they want to read your email? What purpose could it serve? Do you really think France will accept to put the email of their citizens out in the clear if Germany refuses?…

[deleted]

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#334

Post by MiddleEndian »

tluyben2 wrote: post #328
MiddleEndian wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like living in a dense city. I can walk almost everywhere, I don't need a car, there's nice parks, things are open later (although not late enough for my preferences sometimes), there's good variety of restaurants, entertainment, art, food, bars, dancing, sports, clubs for nerds, and so on. The outer walls of my condo are made of concrete, I hear less from my neighbors than when I lived in a house. The jobs situati…

Yeah, think that's a healthy attitude. I never really liked living in cities, but I do like visiting them, especially mega ones that are open most of 24/7 (cities that close before 5 am I find utterly boring I noticed and I lived in a few; but people with kids like that or so I heard). Clubs for nerds sounds good; is that some kind of meatspace IRC?

>Clubs for nerds sounds good; is that some kind of meatspace IRC?

Pretty much, you get everything from board games to Linux meetups, and then like IRC channels, they usually collapse through drama or mismanagement and then a few more pop up lol

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#335

Post by oauea »

rrdharan wrote: post #260
eru wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind that comp for Dutch software developers is probably an order of magnitude lower than what you can get in the US.

That and it’s a fairly racist place in my experience so don’t bother if you think that would affect you.

Not nearly as racist as the US where people of color are regularly murdered.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#336

Post by dodobirdlord »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #157
Freak_NL wrote: post #47

It's scary, because CSAM (child sexual abuse material) is very, very broad, and quite vague in its definition¹. My three year old son stayed with my parents for a week, and he was being taught to swim in their swimming pool. Of course, I get sent pictures and clips of his progress by a proud grandma, and of course, him being a toddler, he felt swimming trunks to be completely optional (and of course, they are at his…

> The automated filter won't care about the context though That's why we have a justice system. Specifically not a common law based one, which is kinds scary per se. People are innocent until proven guilty and the burden of proof's on the prosecution. We are talking about EU here, not Sudan.

Being arrested and dragged into court to defend yourself will seriously negatively impact your life all on its own.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#337

Post by smolder »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #57
Victerius wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think those of us who value our privacy are going to have to draw a line sooner or later. Do we want to combat child sexual abuse? Yes, but not at any cost. Are there things more important than combating child sexual abuse? Yes, such as our digital privacy. Are we willing to make the job of the authorities more difficult in combating child abuse in the name of privacy? The answer is yes. Those who would give up ess…

Drawing such a line is unfortunately fundamentally incompatible with current western attitudes. You need to be able to have adult discussions about death and harm that WILL happen at the scales we're talking about. These harms are often easy to calculate. The harms that come from surveillance dragnets are less immediate and harder to calculate. So in addition to be able to have a discussion that we're incapable of ha…

> we also need to have the balls to say "this long term non-specific harm of the surveillance state is worse than a few kids getting abused".

There is a false assumption here that such a surveillance program would even be effective and not just a stepping stone to arguing for more invasive measures when it doesn't fix anything.

The better argument is "this long term non-specific harm of government surveillance is worse than the harm it would successfully prevent to children." And then you can go on to describe the specific harms that state surveillance and overreach has brought about or enabled...

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#338

Post by tremon »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #235
nix23 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Government can't blackmail citizen Why not? >Do you really believe that in Europe governments are in control of everything like it happens in Russia or in North Korea? Wait you think Russia is in control of it's citizen? Oh man, western propaganda seams to work even better then the russian counterpart.

> Why not? Because they can't, the moment they do, they'll be roasted for doing it. Those who tried, failed miserably. Justice system here is not run by governments, it's a completely separated power. > Wait you think Russia is in control of it's citizen? Oh man, western propaganda seams to work even better then the russian counterpart. They control everything in the control rooms, which is not even the case oin EU d…

they can't, the moment they do, they'll be roasted for doing it.

Really?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/14/dutch-governme...

The Dutch IRS ran a shadow profile system for over ten years, resulting in countless families in financial trouble, numerous divorces, suicides, and kids being removed from their parents and placed in foster care. Compensation/restitution for the affected families is finally coming, but its tragically slow progress is adding insult to injury.

And the government that stepped down over it, is still (again) in power. The very same prime minister that has presided over the country during the entire time this program ran was re-elected after his previous cabinet dissolved.

None of the people working at the IRS have even seen the inside of a courtroom, at least not as defendant. Such a roasting they got.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#339

Post by imchillyb »

If you /truly/ believe that this is about CSAM, you've got your head firmly entrenched up your own ass.

This is -yet another- power grab by The State; that's all this is.

Every human on earth should be firing the SoBs that suggest these things. Every single legislator that champions these types of privacy invasion should be fired; period.

Their names are on a big list now. Fire these assholes.

Re: EU Commission is planning automatic CSAM scanning of private communications

#340

Post by SamuelAdams »

kevincox wrote: post #247
kayodelycaon wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then encryption becomes evidence of guilt, unless you give up the key so they can search it to make sure you're not guilty.

This is not how it works at least in Canada and the US. Until they can read the password out of our minds (or at least prove that we have it) we don't need to give up the key.

Technically correct however courts can hold you in contempt. There was one case where a suspect was arrested and refused to give up passwords to hard drives. The prosecution had reasonable evidence (allegedly) that those hard drives contained child pornography, however since the defendant failed to provide access the prosecution could never prove it.

Other good points were brought up - why not dismiss the hard drive as evidence and use other “proof” such as network logs, computer thumbnails caches from the defendants personal computer, etc?

Personally I’m not sure if those ideas were ever explored.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/02/man-who-refused-...

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