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Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

stephenfollows.com

331–340 of 421 posts

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#331
post #186

Critic reviews are prescriptive: what they think the masses should watch. User reviews are retrospective: how much did they actually enjoy watching the movie. I think there has always been a fundamental disconnect, in that critics think the masses should be watching 'smarter', 'more artistic' or, less flatteringly, more pretentious movies. The world has become a lot more political over the past couple decades. I woul…

I disagree that critic reviews are inherently prescriptive. Major blockbusters rely on cliches for the same reason that supermarket chains spend ridiculous amounts of money trying to get every store to look and feel the same: people find familiarity comforting. But to people who watch thousands upon thousands of movies this gets astoundingly boring. Take any hobby. Literally any one of them. The people who are really…

> Why do people die from erotic self-asphyxiation? Because we have a compulsion to escalate and to push things further. We need novelty. We need new stuff. We go mad if it's just the same thing over and over. At least that's true for most of us. Not everyone takes it all that far, but when you invest a significant amount of time doing one thing in particular, you're always going to want to take it to greater heights.

> And that's the thing about critic reviews: they represent movie fans suffering from the cinematic equivalent of erotic self-asphyxiation. Old, tired cliches and predictable plots? No. They want something they haven't seen before. Art movies are incredibly weird, and film critics love them.

I think thismisunderstands art movies, film critics, and art in general (though there are exceptions). As someone who has learned to understand arts on very roughly that level, including film (an 'admission' that always gets a negative reaction!) it's not that you want more and different, like a hit of heroin, it's that your perception changes and you see things that you didn't see before. I first saw Richard III when I was in high school and let's say I didn't love it! I saw it more recently and it was mind-blowing; it soared to heights I didn't imagine, one after the other (though not a happy story way!). It was the same play - I wasn't getting something more or new - I just perceived so much more, from the language to the characters to the insights to the virtuoso writing. That change in perception is fundamental human perception and applies to anything in which we gain experience and expertise.

When you first drink wine, you cannot distinguish much between different bottles. You literally cannot taste all the flavors, see the colors, and perceive the other sensations that someone with more experience and expertise can. I'm sure you experience it with your profession or hobbies. If you sail boats, you perceive things that beginning sailors do not - and not meaningless things, but things that have a real impact. The same with reviewing code, UX, automobile engines, audio speaker sound, athletic performance, etc. etc. - whatever you have a developed perception of.

Human perception is far more than sensory input; what you 'see' is processed through your brain, including neurons that change based on usage and training, and also through your experience - you recognize your family on a perceptual level, for example (afaik).

The generic, quality critic sees things that you and I don't. I try to learn to see those things too, because when I do, they can be wonders. Just like wine tastes even better, car engines are far more moving, etc. when you develop that perception, so do the experiences of films, paintings, theater - I see colors (metaphorically, but literally sometimes) that I didn't earlier in life, so beautiful I didn't imagine they existed.

'Art films' sometimes cater to more developed perceptions and ignore others, which can make them seem wierd - there is (usually) something there to see, I promise (there are superficial genre art films, as with everything else). It's also true that you appreciate different innovations, such as a film that uses an old technique in an ingenius and powerful way, which you wouldn't notice if you didn't know about the technique, which is somewhat about finding something new, as you say.

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#332
post #186

Critic reviews are prescriptive: what they think the masses should watch. User reviews are retrospective: how much did they actually enjoy watching the movie. I think there has always been a fundamental disconnect, in that critics think the masses should be watching 'smarter', 'more artistic' or, less flatteringly, more pretentious movies. The world has become a lot more political over the past couple decades. I woul…

I'm a film major. I wrote about film on print for quite a while. This was not in the US. I did want to prescribe, but not to the masses. To other crítics, to the pedantic purists that thought Bruce Lee was unimportant and Spielberg formulaic and uninspired, and that unless your name is David Lynch anything American is worse by default. People who thought anything with emotion was trash for the masses. And I was there…

> Nowadays I see everyone shitting on super heroes

Who is doing that? IMHO the NY Times film reviewers, for example, overrate the superhero movies more than they do anything else.

> Many critics are just sad elitists because now they must share the cultural zeitgeist with everyone else

Who are you thinking of?

BTW, where did you do reviews?

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a film major. I wrote about film on print for quite a while. This was not in the US. I did want to prescribe, but not to the masses. To other crítics, to the pedantic purists that thought Bruce Lee was unimportant and Spielberg formulaic and uninspired, and that unless your name is David Lynch anything American is worse by default. People who thought anything with emotion was trash for the masses. And I was there…

I saw "Enter the Dragon" as a teen and liked it a lot. I rewatched it recently and had a hard time thinking of anything good about it :-/ I've turned into my dad. As a teen, I begged him to see a movie I thought was great. We went to see it, and on the way out I was like "well? what do you think?" He thought for a while, and came up with a rather lame compliment he'd obviously struggled to come up with. Watching that…

I had the reverse experience, in a way: As a teen I though it was just fair. I thought the fight scenes - the reason we saw the film, of course - were gimmicky, repetitive, and unconvincing, and thought the same of other kung fu films. The rest of the movie was odd and boring. It was heretical and I kept that opinion to myself.

I saw it again in the last few years and while for me the rest of the movie was awful, the fight scenes were mesmerizing. Bruce Lee's physicality, the physical acting, is on a different planet than anything I've seen. Lee could have been a dancer or the original Andy Serkis - not that kung fu actor was a bad career move either.

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#335
post #287
post #186

Critic reviews are prescriptive: what they think the masses should watch. User reviews are retrospective: how much did they actually enjoy watching the movie. I think there has always been a fundamental disconnect, in that critics think the masses should be watching 'smarter', 'more artistic' or, less flatteringly, more pretentious movies. The world has become a lot more political over the past couple decades. I woul…

I don't want a critic to tell me what I SHOULD be watching. I rely on them to tell me what I will like. I can't watch every movie, the movie critic is meant to be a filter. Historically movie critics judged a film based on its relative value. That's why you see a positive review on a cheesy rom-com and a negative review on a more ambitious flawed work of art. The rom-com review is viewed in the context of other rom-c…

But telling a person what they will like is a much more personalized endeavor suited for automated recommendation systems.

Any random person could like objectively bad movies.

But a critic can only recommend things objectively good. That means they can only try to filter out good movies, which are movies you should watch but may not like because your tastes are not objectively universal.

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#336
post #238

Huh, have critics ever been in sync with audiences? For my whole life, I've learned and then observed that critics evaluate primarily the cinematic quality of a film, i.e. does the film as a piece of art work as a whole when considering acting, directing, screenwriting... This is generally a different axis from entertainment which is what people often care about when looking for something to see. If a critic likes a…

> I've learned and then observed that critics evaluate primarily the cinematic quality of a film, i.e. does the film as a piece of art work as a whole when considering acting, directing, screenwriting... This is generally a different axis from entertainment which is what people often care about when looking for something to see.

IME and IMHO, the former has a great effect on the latter; that's why people, including critics, care about it. The qualities are what make the movie engaging, moving, exciting, etc. In UX, users may not understand how it is done but the UX design still impacts them significantly; UX designers can tell you what is making that impact and how.

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#337
Critics from art house kind of skew the data because the audience of art house movies may be little in numbers but they are more engaged and would probably buy more press, read more stuff about cinema, etc so there is more paper made for them.

Meanwhile, the audience that watch more mainstream movies will be less engaged with the cinema's literature. They would probably be happy with just an ad or a trailer. Because they have different expectations about what is a movie. That is why there is less incentive to write critics for that audience.

Hence the disparity in the data.

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#338

So the main takeaway here for me is that more low budget (“indie” or “film festival”, my terms) movies are getting to theaters and being loved by critics, but people hate them. My wife and I have a rule in our household. Anything that was awarded at a film festival (Sundance in particular) I will not watch with her. This analysis backs up the feelings I’ve had that lead to that agreement… Any movie that does well wit…

What sorts of films don't lecture?

> What sorts of films don't lecture?

Almost every sort of film, IME. I can hardly recall a film that 'lectured', if we mean the same thing, and it would be panned if it did.

For one thing, if the filmmaker can't convey things without lecturing, they are in completely the wrong job. Does a painter have to add call-out boxes with labels? Second, they almost never have a specific message, but depict the world - art holds a mirror to the world (very generally speaking).

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#339

So the main takeaway here for me is that more low budget (“indie” or “film festival”, my terms) movies are getting to theaters and being loved by critics, but people hate them. My wife and I have a rule in our household. Anything that was awarded at a film festival (Sundance in particular) I will not watch with her. This analysis backs up the feelings I’ve had that lead to that agreement… Any movie that does well wit…

> Any movie that does well with critics or at a film festival has “a strong message” or “teaches us something”. That’s all well and good, but I don’t need these expensive (€20/ticket) modern fables. I’m paying to be entertained, not to be lectured to.

FWIW, they are not lecturing; there is no strong message. I suspect you are finding what you look for, but it's hardly ever there. I've seen many, many art films, and I can hardly remember much of that.

In fact, the usual criticism AFIAK is that the art world lacks morality and embraces relativism.

Re: Are film critics losing sync with audiences?

#340

So the main takeaway here for me is that more low budget (“indie” or “film festival”, my terms) movies are getting to theaters and being loved by critics, but people hate them. My wife and I have a rule in our household. Anything that was awarded at a film festival (Sundance in particular) I will not watch with her. This analysis backs up the feelings I’ve had that lead to that agreement… Any movie that does well wit…

To cover the comments, particularly the guy whose comment is dead, yes, raunchy comedies. Also 90% of the Blockbuster movies. Perhaps I’d have done better if I said I don’t like being preached at. For an example, Juno: Yes, I get it, unwed mothers are bad. Should I watch a Lifetime special about it just so I can cry about how horrible things are?

> For an example, Juno: Yes, I get it, unwed mothers are bad.

What you perceive is your experience, but I think there might be other things there for you to percieve. My experience is 180 degrees different and I've never heard anyone say that about Juno. I thought it was very sympathetic, a movie about compassion, innocence and love overriding hardship.

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