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USB-C hubs and my slow descent into madness (2021)

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Re: USB-C hubs and my slow descent into madness (2021)

#331

Post by microtonal »

nwallin wrote: post #224

Also note that if you have a laptop that supports Thunderbolt, you need a docking station that supports Thunderbolt. If you have a laptop that supports Alternate Video Mode, you need a docking station that supports Alternate Video Mode. AFAIK no laptop supports both modes, and very, very few docking station supports both. (you'll usually get reduced features if you have a mismatch; for instance, you'll get just one m…

Also note that if you have a laptop that supports Thunderbolt, you need a docking station that supports Thunderbolt. If you have a laptop that supports Alternate Video Mode, you need a docking station that supports Alternate Video Mode. AFAIK no laptop supports both modes, and very, very few docking station supports both.

As far as I understand, Thunderbolt 3 needs to support 4x PCI Express 3.0, DisplayPort 1.2, and USB 3.1 Gen 2 [1] (slides 8, 10-15). And Intel advertises that their Thunderbolt 3 controllers can switch to DisplayPort-only alt-mode [1].

All the Thunderbolt 3/4 Macs that I have had (Intel and M1) definitely supported DP alt-mode (I hooked up a 4k@60Hz that way for years) and also USB-C docks that allocate lanes for DP alt-mode and USB 3.1. Obviously, Thunderbolt docks also work.

[1] https://www.thunderbolttechnology.net/sites/default/files/ID... [2] https://www.thunderbolttechnology.net/sites/default/files/Th....

Re: USB-C hubs and my slow descent into madness (2021)

#332

Post by theshrike79 »

moffkalast wrote: post #204
moritonal wrote: post #7

If you want a decent dock you have to spend a bit of money. I went through this pain before accepting the cost and buying a CalDigit Thunderbolt 4 Element Hub[1]. Run's two 4k displays at 60Hz, any peripheral and charges my laptop. So good I bought a second. 1. https://www.caldigit.com/thunderbolt-4-element-hub/

Remind me to never buy a laptop without a healthy array of dedicated external ports. This is lunacy.

I swap between three different computers. Everything is attached to the same dock.

I just need to swap the USB-C connector between the three and I get the same displays and peripherals.

Doing this with a "healthy array of external ports" would be a huge pain in the ass.

Re: USB-C hubs and my slow descent into madness (2021)

#333

Post by microtonal »

logbiscuitswave wrote: post #276
trauco wrote: post #61

The Satechi one creates "broadcast storms" [1] that messed up my home network if left it unplugged from the computer but powered on and with the ethernet cable connected. I have an Anker one now, I guess I should expect the same. I also have a Dell D6000, which is rarely reviewed but has been solid. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/sysadmin/comments/an3nyf/pass_thoug...

I had the exact same issue from a Thinkpad docking station. A later firmware update for the dock seemed to fix this. Was it ever frustrating though trying to figure out why my network would randomly decide to just crap out.

I have the same experience with the Lenovo USB-C Dock Gen 2 (also uses a Realtek NIC). It would knock out our router (or maybe, I can't recall, the router would just block my NIC).

Re: USB-C hubs and my slow descent into madness (2021)

#334

Post by microtonal »

baybal2 wrote: post #175
ApolIllo wrote: post #43

> I appear to be paying a lot of money for products that I could buy for cheap on random websites is starting to piss me off a bit at this point. The last 5+ years as an Amazon customer have me feeling this way. > Realtek RTL8153 Could the Realtek issues be related to power? I have a Tbolt dock which is powered using a DC barrel jack (6.5amps @ 20V). The comparison is not great as the dock (TBT3-UDZ) is not a USB C d…

I am making these Type-C hubs for a living, and indeed RTL8153 is the most trouble free, and cheap chip on the market. Though, I myself had misfortune buying broken RTL8153 based ethernet NICs. Mismatched coupling capacitors, PCB shorts, possibly broken firmwares. 40%-30% people who do EE in China are just above the Arduino level. Chinese engineering companies can make good hardware if you pay them, and give time to…

Though, I myself had misfortune buying broken RTL8153 based ethernet NICs.

One of the issues with the RTL8153 NIC is (as a sibling commenter points out) that on M1 Macs, you are confined to the CDC-ECM driver. RTL8153 with this driver usually cap at ~700MBit and cause a lot of CPU load (usually restricted to the efficiency cores, but it's still pretty bad anyway).

For USB docks, I can still understand the choice. But IMO this is inexcusable for Thunderbolt docks. You can tunnel PCI-E, so nothing holds dock makers from hanging a good NIC with well-supported drivers on the PCI-E bus. Some higher-end Thunderbolt Docks do this AFAIK. The Apple Thunderbolt 2 Ethernet adapter uses a Broadcom NIC on the PCI-E bus and can reach 1000MBit without causing high CPU loads. Unfortunately, it requires a Thunderbolt 3 -> 2 adapter, which is more expensive than the Ethernet adapter itself.

Re: USB-C hubs and my slow descent into madness (2021)

#335

Post by katbyte »

sho wrote: post #286
dspillett wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why even bother with buying a laptop in the first place. If the goal is to hook up two 4K monitors That might not be a full-time goal. Some want a machine that works on the move but can be expanded to bigger screens and such when at certain locations (office and/or home). A laptop and dock allow this compromise. It is a compromise, not one suitable for all. But it is the list inconvenient option for many.

> Some want a machine that works on the move but can be expanded to bigger screens and such when at certain locations I wouldn't say "some". Probably 90% of developers I know require exactly this, in fact off the top of my head I can't think of any who don't. Even the permanent, full-remote, no-really-there-is-literally-no-office types want to sit in a different room sometimes or work from a coffee shop. It's pretty…

Personally I like having a laptop for on the go and a desktop that’s always in one place and use syncing to make it pretty seemless to switch between them.

Re: USB-C hubs and my slow descent into madness (2021)

#336

Post by microtonal »

drzoltar wrote: post #3

Sad to see Anker on the list. I used to think of them as a pretty reliable electronics manufacturer in a sea of low quality chargers and hubs.

They are not great. I had a USB-C adapter of theirs years ago. While the adapter itself worked pretty ok (besides only supporting 4k@30Hz), it was so badly shielded that it would reliably drop any Bluetooth or WiFi connection in its vicinity. I browsed through the Amazon reviews and it turned out that there were many people with the same issues (and also later USB-C adapters).

I know that USB-C can cause interference on Bluetooth/WiFi bands, but this was never an issue with properly shielded adapters.

Re: USB-C hubs and my slow descent into madness (2021)

#337

Post by dogecoinbase »

aendruk wrote: post #290
c_o_n_v_e_x wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious.... why?

I live in a world overrun by capitalism and inundated with ads. The inescapable consumerism is sickening. That it’s the norm to run ads on practically every consumer product is absurd, and I feel gaslit that apparently everyone else is comfortable with it. We pay to remove ads from many services—why does my thousand-dollar bicycle still have a permanent billboard on the side? Have I not paid enough? Removing a logo f…

> Removing a logo from my life is one small reprieve from the dystopia.

And a great way to advertise to your peer group that you're comfortable and wealthy enough to be able to choose to disengage from the capitalist rat race!

Re: USB-C hubs and my slow descent into madness (2021)

#338

Post by Dylan16807 »

bayindirh wrote: post #112
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's nothing like having to do Johnny Mnemonic cosplay because a manufacturer won't let their product be sullied with holes.

I don't think a MacBook Air M1 has a lot places to add ports [0]. The latest generation of MacBook Pros bring a lot of the ports back [1], so that point doesn't hold anymore. Also, of all the MacBook Air users I know, I'm the heaviest user in terms of processor load, and given that it's the company computer, it wouldn't be my first choice for a personal MacBook (in fact, I have a personal MacBook Pro). At the end of…

Looks like there's enough room for USB A ports to me. They're not massively thicker.

HDMI would require curving the bottom differently but would easily fit in a laptop of that thickness.

Re: USB-C hubs and my slow descent into madness (2021)

#339

Post by microtonal »

ridiculous_fish wrote: post #128
InTheArena wrote: post #10

And sadly, I own two out of three of those. It's worth noting that the Realtek is crap, even ignoring the OSX driver situation. I have a few of the 2.5GBe dongles to make my synology speak 2.5gb/s (because a modern NAS is 2020 should have more then gigabit, but doens't because reasons). The driver in Linux is hot mess. I seem to have much more luck then some with it.

Do you know of any alternative to the RTL8153 (1Gbe) and RTL8156 (2.5GBe) chips? The only competitors seems to be AQC111U, which appear to not be supported on ARM Macs, and AX88179 whose support appears spotty as well. Any experience with either?

A Thunderbolt dock or adapter that puts the NIC on the PCI-E bus, like Apple's Thunderbolt 2 Ethernet adapter (which annoyingly requires a Thunderbolt 2 -> 3 adapter). I know that some Thunderbolt docks also use Intel NICs, but I don't have one of these, so I cannot recommend any model.

Re: USB-C hubs and my slow descent into madness (2021)

#340

Post by arcticbull »

ruuda wrote: post #328
arcticbull wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a huge fan of the Dell WD19TB. Works great on my MacBook Pro M1 Pro (did I mention it's for Pros) and my gaming PC. The only issue I have with it is that the PC will only run video over Thunderbolt if I use YCbCr 4:2:2 with chroma subsampling - so instead I wired my PC monitor directly to the GPU and use the WD19TB for everything else (including video on my Mac laptop over HDMI). Gets a solid 980Mbits symmetric o…

I have been using this one for years, it used to drive two 4k displays at 60 Hz. But since half a year or so, I can't get the second display to run at 60 Hz any more. I think it's a regression in the Linux kernel, but it's basically impossible to debug. A few times it suddenly did recognize it can do two displays at 60 Hz, but it seems to depend on the phase of the moon :/

Dude video over these hubs - even the good ones - is so hit and miss. It's really frustrating actually.
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