I’m disappointed but not surprised that the title is editorialized. It specifically leaves off “whistleblower alleges”. It’s literally one disgruntled former employee claiming this. But as usual for HN these days a tiny populations claim - in this case a population of one - is stated as fact.
The piece written by the whisteblower includes links to documents: https://www.lioness.co/post/microsoft-is-using-illegal-bribe...
Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes
331–340 of 409 posts
Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes
#332Earlier quoted context omitted.
The irony is the bribes are, of course, a requirement to operate in the US as a large corporation, but here they’re laundered as “lobbying” and “campaign donations.”
It’s really not the same thing. Bribery undermines the rule of law. Lobbying helps form it. The difference may seem subtle but it isn’t. If you believe US lawmakers are taking bribes please provide evidence because that is a Big Deal. If you believe lobbying is harmful to our democratic processes please present that argument directly.
Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes
#333Ohh man my ESG ETF is suddenly evil..
I was very interested in ESG until I saw that pretty much all ESG funds had Facebook in the top handful of holdings. Because they're easy on the environment compared to an aluminum smelter, and somehow destroying democracy around the world doesn't count as a social or governance issue. I've changed my focus to owning shares via funds that will vote my shares with some sort of conscience. (Vanguard is the rock bottom…
Could you recommend alternative funds that are more ethical?
Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes
#334Former Microsoftie here. After all the business ethics training videos I had to sit through, I am infuriated by this.
I'm infuriated that I'm being offered t-shirts and maybe a lunch and someone else out there is getting a cook for a month. Damn right I'm taking the cook.
Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes
#335My work involves a public sector organization in Brazil. In the last years there was a big push towards microsoft products at my workplace, to a point where emails with announcements from corporate IT sometimes looks and sounds like spam pushing MS products. Now I'm left wondering if that's related to bribes here too, or if it's just bad judgement/taste from IT leadership.
The rules about open formats for data disclosure are written in law, and the decrees about data interchange require open formats too.
As a consequence, the most people-facing roles of governments reverted to old habits (or maybe there were bribes involved, I wouldn't know, but it surely didn't require bribes, those people never stopped using Word for everything), while the more central roles are migrating into web-systems and open formats.
Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes
#336Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s really not the same thing. Bribery undermines the rule of law. Lobbying helps form it. The difference may seem subtle but it isn’t. If you believe US lawmakers are taking bribes please provide evidence because that is a Big Deal. If you believe lobbying is harmful to our democratic processes please present that argument directly.
> If you believe lobbying is harmful to our democratic processes please present that argument directly. Not OP, but it is easy to understand how lobbying is too close to a quid pro quo scheme. If a politician receives donations in any form, in order to push for legislation that may benefit the donors, how is it any different from bribery?
As far as lobbying, there is still the same difference. If a politician said they would promise to personally do X for someone only if given Y dollars, it's a bribe. Instead, if a politician said they would do X if elected, and some random person heard this and liked their cause and so decided to donate them Y dollars, it's not a bribe, because the politician wasn't going to give preferential treatment due to the donation, and the donor wasn't coerced. And it works in reverse. If a donor said there will be extra X money if you do Y personally for me when elected, it's a bribe. See the difference now?
Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes
#337Earlier quoted context omitted.
> While the actions go afoul of US law LMAO, surely you jest! The US is one of the most corrupt societies in the world. Where else is it not only accepted practice, but enshrined in law with "money is speech". Please see https://www.fec.gov/ (BWAWAAHAHAHHAH, this is an government website listing bribes... they don't even have to hide it!). See also, https://opensecrets.org/ .
Money is speech. There is no way around it. Even in the most unfree society in the world you can go in your shower and whisper anything you want. Nobody will know you said anything though so it won't do anything. To make a difference in a society as large as the US you need a lot of money to pay for things. You can print and mail flyers (money for paper, printing, and postage), you can take out ads on prime time TV..…
You know damn well that limiting speech is normal and accepted everywhere (eg. hate speech or crying "Fire!" in a theatre). But somehow, the rich have convinced Americans that their speech can't be limited. That their bribery ought to be legal.
Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes
#338Earlier quoted context omitted.
An Overview The Foreign Corrupt Practices Act of 1977, as amended, 15 U.S.C. §§ 78dd-1, et seq. ("FCPA"), was enacted for the purpose of making it unlawful for certain classes of persons and entities to make payments to foreign government officials to assist in obtaining or retaining business. Specifically, the anti-bribery provisions of the FCPA prohibit the willful use of the mails or any means of instrumentality o…
You'll need to draw that line a little clearer, because it's not starkly clear to me. I'm aware of the definition of bribery. I don't think anything mentioned here describes graft as much as it describes the reseller business unless there is some law that limits the amount of money a reseller makes on a deal, or that a purchaser is required to use all of said purchase. In the Saudi example, the contractor got a great…
I think the big problem here is that you've misunderstood why bribery is a criminal matter. The fact you're talking about Microsoft being "one of the victims in that case" is another sign you do not get it. Corruption itself is the problem, we're not trying to ensure Microsoft gets their $$$.
To root out corruption, the relatively less corrupt major industrialised nations agreed rules forbidding their business entities from having anything to do with such practices even via a third party. When Microsoft realises that their guy in Saudi is involved in something dodgy, their duty isn't "hide it so the big bosses don't know" or even "pay the guy off and find somebody else" but to report this corruption to the government.
These are leaches, they have to be starved, and that won't be effective so long as, like in this story, there are nods and winks and everybody pretends it's fine so long as they got paid.
Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes
#339Earlier quoted context omitted.
The rule of law. Subtlety matters. Calling lobbying bribery is apathy, which is uninteresting. Even worse, it’s ineffective. > If a politician receives donations in any form, in order to push for legislation that may benefit the donors, how is it any different from bribery? So, should I donate to a mayoral campaign that aligns with my beliefs? Is all money in politics evil, or is it just a matter of degrees? What if…
> The rule of law. Making it legal doesn’t make it moral or ethical. Bribes aren’t necessarily illegal either. > So, should I donate to a mayoral campaign that aligns with my beliefs? There is a very clear distinction between donating and lobbying. Political donations are typically not driven to any specific end, whereas lobbying seeks to influence specific legislation. Saying that lobbyists look to “inform” the “ign…
Re: Microsoft is tied to hundreds of millions of dollars in foreign bribes
#340I was prepared to get my pitchfork out, but after reading I'm struggling to connect the dots. This article is scant on details of what illegal or favorable behavior Microsoft is expecting in exchange for money. The only concrete mention is a previous SEC filing that has nothing to do with this whistleblower. The first example about $40k doesn't seem to explain what Microsoft was actually thinking it would get for tha…
This section in particular is damning,
> In another instance, he saw a contractor for the Saudi interior ministry receive a $13 million discount on its software — but the discount never made it back to the end customer. In another case, Qatar’s ministry of education was paying $9.5 million a year for Office and Windows licenses that were never installed. One way or another, money would end up leaking out of the contracting process, most likely split between the government, the subcontractor, and any Microsoft employees in on the deal.
These "subcontractors" are usually relatives of people in Government, and they're bribing these officials, then splitting money between all of them in exchange for contracts. This is illegal under the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.
The whistleblower wrote a post detailing his accusations here, https://www.lioness.co/post/microsoft-is-using-illegal-bribe...
These provide even more color.
> In 2016, a request came through in the amount of $40,000 to accelerate closing a deal in one African country. [...] On top of that, the partner in the deal was underqualified for the project’s outlined scope, and he wasn’t even supposed to be doing business with Microsoft: he had been terminated four months earlier for poor performance on the sales team, and corporate policy prohibits former employees from working as partners for six months from their departure without special approval.
> I brought these issues up with the Microsoft services architect who wrote the request, asking why she didn’t take the work in this case to our very capable in-house team, Microsoft Services. She said our in-house daily rate is very expensive, and she needed a less expensive team to handle the pilot.
and then,
> Meanwhile, the woman’s manager sought me out, angry that I had bypassed him; I told him I was only following company policy. Soon after, he was promoted and became my manager. He immediately scheduled a one-on-one meeting, in which he told me our job is to bring as much revenue as we can to Microsoft. He added, “I don’t want you to be a blocker. If any of the subsidiaries in the Middle East or Africa are doing something, you have to turn your head and leave it as is. If anything happens, they will pay the price, not you.” When I said I would not block anything unless it violated company policy, his tone took a sharp turn. He shouted that I was not capable of doing this business and couldn’t close deals. But my 18-year track record spoke for me.
He escalates, but no one does anything, so he writes to the CEO.
> The aforementioned vice president immediately got back in touch with me, to say that by escalating the matter to Nadella, I had just “booked a one-way ticket out of Microsoft.”
> A general manager told me people panicked when I came to the subsidiary offices, and I had become “one of the most hated persons in Africa.” Only later did I realize this was because I asked too many questions; I was stopping people from skimming money off their deals.
This is a classic culture of corruption. It doesn't get starker than this.
> Examining an audit of several partners conducted by PricewaterhouseCoopers, I discovered that when agreeing to terms of sale for a product or contract, a Microsoft executive or salesperson would propose a side agreement with the partner and the decision maker at the entity making the purchase. This decision maker on the customer side would send an email to Microsoft requesting a discount, which would be granted, but the end customer would pay the full fee anyway. The amount of the discount would then be distributed among the parties in cahoots: the Microsoft employee(s) involved in the scheme, the partner, and the decision maker at the purchasing entity—often a government official.
Walmart got caught recently doing something very similar, https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2019-102
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-walmart-fcpa/walmart-to-p...
You can see the timeline of FCPA cases here,
https://www.sec.gov/enforce/sec-enforcement-actions-fcpa-cas...