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Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

nytimes.com

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Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#331

Post by giantg2 »

lamontcg wrote: post #325
giantg2 wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"and cars need to not be treated fairly." Depends on your definition. They don't need to be treated equally, but if the system isn't "fair" then what's the point of anything? Nobody will follow a system they don't believe in and that doesn't make sense. Cars aren't treated equally, and are held to a higher standard. "And I live in Seattle where we get a lot of people jaywalking indiscriminately who one way or another…

That URL really doesn't back up your position. Read down to the very bottom and past the headline.

It does. Have you read it? It shows that pedestrians are at fault in a large percentage of accidents. If we want to change that, then we have to change the infrastructure design. Not just shift blame within the existing system. Just look at their positive example in their article of Toronto having 67% of pedestrian deaths due to driver error. 33% is still a large number worth addressing.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#332

Post by analog31 »

analog31 wrote: post #172
vetinari wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you part of some private community, that is able to make purchase orders on behalf of its members? Otherwise, what you describe is not normal. The bill would be paid by whoever issued the PO. If it wasn't me, I'm not paying. If it was not on my property, then not my problem, and if it was, you have also trespassing on top. So the only alternative that occurs to me that you are a part of some community, with commo…

The bill is called a "special assessment." It does permit you to do the work yourself if you want, but that's much more expensive typically. Right to work on the property is called an "easement." These measures are common in urban areas in the US.

Just adding a note that there are other easements as well. For instance the back line of my family's property grants an easement to the utilities for maintaining the electric and telecom wires.

Another way of thinking about it is that the notion of "ownership" is limited in a variety of ways. We also don't have mineral rights or control of the airspace above our house.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#333

Post by gumby »

mrep wrote: post #326
gumby wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have controlled access roads (aka "freeways") which are the natural domains of automobiles. Pedestrians, pets, bicycles and other impedimenta are out of bounds there. We have fenced and raised rail roads and their cars should be able to assume that pedestrians et al won't be encountered. Everywhere else...I don't believe cars should be allowed to drive as if they have the right of way. Sure, it's bogus to leap out…

> Everywhere else...I don't believe cars should be allowed to drive as if they have the right of way. Sure, it's bogus to leap out from being hidden between parked cars, but that's a corner case akin to sticking a fork in a power outlet. What style of street are you thinking of? Stop sign streets? Main streets with stoplights? Are just wanting to literally walk across any road without looking and force all traffic to…

> What style of street are you thinking of? Stop sign streets? Main streets with stoplights? Are just wanting to literally walk across any road without looking and force all traffic to stop?

Essentially, yes. Roads are for people, and of course drivers and passengers are people using the street too, but they don't deserve top priority over other uses, especially as the effort for them to get around is low (they are using external power to move themselves; the other users are not).

> Is walking down to the nearest stop sign/traffic light really that inconvenient?

Depends on how far and if it's safe to walk there. I live in a town with walkable footpaths on every street, and even between some streets, but neighboring towns are not so accommodating. There are plenty of places where the footpath simply ends in the middle of the block.

Anyway it's less convenient than being pulled to the intersection by a motor.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#334

Post by tim333 »

samwillis wrote: post #34

Here in the UK they have just changed the Highway Code (the rules that given all road users, including pedestrians) so that pedestrians have ultimate right of way in almost all cases. It’s the opposite of the situation in the US, a pedestrian in the UK can cross the road anywhere and I believe cars have to stop and make way. It’s going to be interesting to see how it effects accident numbers, I’m worry it may actuall…

>a pedestrian in the UK can cross the road anywhere and I believe cars have to stop and make way.

Speaking as a UK driver (and pedestrian) - no, that's not really the case. At least not that pedestrians have right of way. I mean cars will hit the brakes to avoid killing you but I wouldn't recommend relying on that. The only place they changed the right of way recently is at turnings with 'give way' markings as shown in your link.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#335

Post by tim333 »

Steltek wrote: post #228
snird wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because they are paid per delivery, incentivizing them to go as fast as possible with no regards to the law. An the companies sending them will have no repercussions if the police will stop the delivery guys - making the companies care less and even encouraging this behavior.

You got the same behavior from Uber drivers. They'll park wherever is closest to their fare, regardless of whether it blocks traffic, because if they don't, the fare gives them a 1-star rating. Cousin was a city cop. If he told them to move, they'd seriously just ignore him. Now ask yourself if you're going to ticket this guy and possibly suspend his livelihood when everyone else is doing it with virtual impunity? It…

Though that isn't really a safety issue. Traffic congestion and bad parking is a different type of problem. In parts of London they deal with the bad Uber pickups with cameras that record it and send a parking ticket in the post.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#336

Post by tim333 »

pwr-electronics wrote: post #112
gameswithgo wrote: post #2

In Austin Texas we have an absurdly well marked crosswalk on the way to the elementary school, to a close approximation nobody has ever stopped to let us cross. Our daughter was nearly killed once, so far. It seems so many people in America are so fat now they don’t imagine people would ever walk, so they drive without regard for pedestrians and active hostility towards cyclists and park in the way of sidewalks, maki…

I briefly worked in one of the statistically worst states for bicycle safety, but I was still surprised to learn how many older people fantasized about running over cyclists, or had a "they probably deserved it" attitude whenever a cyclist was struck by a car. One time, a couple of coworkers were riding single file in the generous shoulder of a wide nearly empty multi-lane road in the early morning when they were bot…

Strange really - I've never figured what that's all about, speaking as a driver who has no problem with cyclists.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#337

Post by pwr-electronics »

tim333 wrote: post #336
pwr-electronics wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I briefly worked in one of the statistically worst states for bicycle safety, but I was still surprised to learn how many older people fantasized about running over cyclists, or had a "they probably deserved it" attitude whenever a cyclist was struck by a car. One time, a couple of coworkers were riding single file in the generous shoulder of a wide nearly empty multi-lane road in the early morning when they were bot…

Strange really - I've never figured what that's all about, speaking as a driver who has no problem with cyclists.

It's a culture war topic.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#338

Post by analog31 »

masklinn wrote: post #289
ghaff wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I must say I was not aware that people can be responsible for the maintenance of the sidewalk in front of their house if there is one. But it's quite common to have to shovel that sidewalk (or pay someone to do it)--at least in the city--and you can be fined if you don't. It's probably an easement on your property so you're responsible for it.

Yes having to keep the sidewalk traversable sounds like a possible duty as, as you note, you have an easement. But having to pay for it directly sounds extremely counter-productive. And even the first part is dubious really: there should be sidewalks most everywhere including non-residential locations or the like, which the city would almost certainly have to clear alongside the roadway. Surely in that case it’s more…

The situation in most US cities is that there are neighborhoods with and without sidewalks. Some subdivisions have them, others don't. And it's not like you can readily add sidewalks after the fact, without wreaking havoc.

In my town, for the most part the neighborhoods without sidewalks also have extremely little car traffic, and pedestrians walk in the street without issue. The drivers also tend to behave themselves.

Changing anything that requires substantially raising the city budget is hard, because the state makes many of the rules for city budgets and taxes. Adding a large seasonal workforce and equipment for clearing sidewalks would be a tough nut to crack. They do clear the sidewalks around parks, schools, and the like. There's also a matter of the preferences of residents. For instance I don't want a ton of salt poured onto the sidewalks in front of my house, and am happy to keep it clear of snow. Every 3 or 4 houses, somebody has a snowblower that rarely gets used.

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#339

Post by [deleted] »

taylodl wrote: post #330

My observation over the past year has been people are disregarding traffic laws more and more. The light is red? No worries! I'll just go through the intersection. And that's for traffic going straight! We've always had the problem of the left-turners slipping a car or two through after the light has gone red. Now it's 3, 4 and sometimes even 5! I'm now starting see people just go through red lights, treating the lig…

[deleted]

Re: Pedestrian deaths spike in U.S. as reckless driving surges

#340

Post by throwaway0a5e »

lamontcg wrote: post #325
giantg2 wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"and cars need to not be treated fairly." Depends on your definition. They don't need to be treated equally, but if the system isn't "fair" then what's the point of anything? Nobody will follow a system they don't believe in and that doesn't make sense. Cars aren't treated equally, and are held to a higher standard. "And I live in Seattle where we get a lot of people jaywalking indiscriminately who one way or another…

That URL really doesn't back up your position. Read down to the very bottom and past the headline.

Having read this entire comment sub-thread I think you should spend some time operating some small and nimble piece of equipment in an open pit mine, a rail yard or a harbor. The rules on the road are not perfect but they are not arbitrary and exposure to even bigger size differences makes the reasons slightly more obvious.
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