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Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

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Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

#331

Post by ramesh31 »

throwawayboise wrote: post #227
ramesh31 wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's how labor markets work.

At some point, no amount of money is worth it. I can hardly imagine earning $350k a year. I've never earned a third of that anually. What I can imagine is a job that places such a demand on my time and attention that I don't have time for a life outside of it.

>At some point, no amount of money is worth it.

Speak for yourself, I guess.

I would strap myself into the torture machine from Clockwork Orange for 8 hours a day if you paid me $350k to do it.

Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

#332

Post by DesiLurker »

deltaonefour wrote: post #311

Ok. amazon has a high attrition rate because of it's culture. Making the pay higher won't necessarily fix that. Does ANYONE in amazon see culture changes occurring at all? I'm willing to respond to the 5 recruiters contacting me BUT only if there is a huge drive to change culture as well.

plus that high pay looks just like a bait to me. you still have to survive brutal (& I mean Brutal) annual reviews for entire duration and also not get PIPed in the process. getting piped for a bullshit reason really sucks, I have never been but have closely seen it happen.

to answer the original question, nope, I have not seen any evidence of culture change, source: a close friend joined & left in a year.

Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

#333

Post by karmasimida »

throwawayboise wrote: post #227
ramesh31 wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's how labor markets work.

At some point, no amount of money is worth it. I can hardly imagine earning $350k a year. I've never earned a third of that anually. What I can imagine is a job that places such a demand on my time and attention that I don't have time for a life outside of it.

You can start imagining though, 350k is ... not that much in high cost area like Bay/NYC/Seattle

Especially so if you are single income family.

Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

#334

Post by banana-19 »

My Amazon salary history, to anchor some of this story better:

- Joined early early 2017 as an L5 hire (no previous FANG experience, but 10+ elsewhere) with an an offer of base $145K, sign on of $50K year 1, $38K year 2, 150 RSUs (AMZN worth ~$850 = 127500). Vesting schedule: 5% @ 1y, 15% @ 2y, 20% @ 2.5y, 20% @ 3y, 20% @ 3.5y, 20% @ 4y.

- Negotiated without competing offers a bump to $150K base, $60K / $45K cash, 162 RSUs.

- A breakdown based on Amazon's 15% stock aprecciation YOY gives you Amazon's Total Compensation Target. This is Amazon's projection assuming that you perform at the middle of the expectation of your cohort in the yearly performance review (OLR, not forte as the article states)

  - year 1 (8 RSUs): $150K base + $60K cash + 8 * $850 * 1.15 = $218K

  - year 2 (24 RSUs): $150K base + $46K cash + 24 * $850 * 1.15^2 = $223K

  - year 3 (32 + 33 RSUs): $150K base + (32 * $850 * 1.15^2.5) + (33 * $850 * 1.15^3) = $231K

  - year 4 (32 + 33 RSUs): $150K base + (32 * $850 * 1.15^3.5) + (33 * $850 * 1.15^4) = $243K
- Actual salary

  - year 1 (AMZN @ $1430) = $221K. OLR bumped base salary for next year to $157K

  - year 2 (AMZN @ $1844) = $247K. OLR bumped base salary for next year to $160K. No stock grant as projected salary > comp target

  - year 3 (AMZN @ $1767, $2307) = $292K. Granted 18 RSUs to vest at year 4.5 and year 5

  - year 4 (AMZN @ $3338, $3379) = $378K

  - year 5 (AMZN @ $3409, $3400?) = $221K
- Notes

  - due to manager / life reasons, didn't progress beyond L5. If I were to pursue this this year, my comp adjustment would have come about a year after starting at that level (but only to the lower end of the L6 band ~ $250K). $30K for a tonne more work seems rather stupid.

  - note the golden handcuffs as well as that huge cliff

  - some of the above is intentionally inaccurate (but not by a huge amount)

Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

#335

Post by vanusa »

dan-robertson wrote: post #308
throwawayboise wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At some point, no amount of money is worth it. I can hardly imagine earning $350k a year. I've never earned a third of that anually. What I can imagine is a job that places such a demand on my time and attention that I don't have time for a life outside of it.

It’s easy and comforting to imagine that someone getting paid more than you must also suffer more than you – certainly well paid doctors and lawyers and investment bankers seem to suffer terrible working conditions – but it isn’t really true. A software developer earning an ordinary good salary (say $80k-$120k to pick some reference point) isn’t going to be working ‘harder’ than someone with a more manual job[1] earn…

It’s easy and comforting to imagine that someone getting paid more than you must also suffer more than you

However in the case of Amazon this isn't based on "imagining" but extremely widespread reports across multiple sources.

Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

#336

Post by ramesh31 »

karmasimida wrote: post #333
throwawayboise wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At some point, no amount of money is worth it. I can hardly imagine earning $350k a year. I've never earned a third of that anually. What I can imagine is a job that places such a demand on my time and attention that I don't have time for a life outside of it.

You can start imagining though, 350k is ... not that much in high cost area like Bay/NYC/Seattle Especially so if you are single income family.

>350k is ... not that much in high cost area like Bay/NYC/Seattle

Yeah it really still is. Living in the bay area as a single 20 something making that kind of money you are approaching 1% status. Rent is a little higher sure, but what really is the difference between $2k/month and $4k/month when you're bringing home $20k+/month? And everything else in California besides housing is the same as anywhere else really in terms of cost of living.

Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

#337

Post by mrep »

grogers wrote: post #326
mrep wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not entirely, RSUs are harder to use when qualifying for a mortgage.

Wouldn't you just show your N most recent W2s to your bank? Why would they care about your comp breakdown?

Not for US mortgages, here is what my mortgage broker sent me as a requirement for the second home I am looking to buy:

OK – we can use the RSU’s with the following conditions:

Your borrower will need to have a 2-year history of liquidating the RSU account and evidence the RSUs are received as part of the borrower's regular income. Fannie Mae requires you obtain the issuance agreement, schedule of share distributions, vesting schedule, evidence the stock is publicly traded, and evidence of payout of the RSU per YTD paystub and W-2s for the most recent 2 years. Freddie Mac requires the same in addition to a 10-day PCV. The income will be required to continue for a minimum of 3 years.

If you can get me these items highlighted above, I will send to Underwriting for them to calculate the income and get us a valid number to use for qualifying.

Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

#338

Post by karmasimida »

ramesh31 wrote: post #336
karmasimida wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can start imagining though, 350k is ... not that much in high cost area like Bay/NYC/Seattle Especially so if you are single income family.

>350k is ... not that much in high cost area like Bay/NYC/Seattle Yeah it really still is. Living in the bay area as a single 20 something making that kind of money you are approaching 1% status. Rent is a little higher sure, but what really is the difference between $2k/month and $4k/month when you're bringing home $20k+/month? And everything else in California besides housing is the same as anywhere else really in…

For the record.

You don't bring 20k+ per months, more like 9k+ after tax/401k contribution. And stock grants are liquid assets, but they are not cash, and most people I know won't exercise them right away, so they are still numbers in certain DB table

Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

#339

Post by vanusa »

karmasimida wrote: post #333
throwawayboise wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At some point, no amount of money is worth it. I can hardly imagine earning $350k a year. I've never earned a third of that anually. What I can imagine is a job that places such a demand on my time and attention that I don't have time for a life outside of it.

You can start imagining though, 350k is ... not that much in high cost area like Bay/NYC/Seattle Especially so if you are single income family.

Median household income in Santa Clara County is $140k.

How on earth can you say that $350k is "not that much"?

Re: Amazon more than doubles max base pay to $350k

#340

Post by krinchan »

throwhauser wrote: post #34
xiphias2 wrote: post #13

As a Googler I was approached by Amazon, and when I started to look at the culture, a photo came out with Jeff Bezos using a door because he was too ,,frugal’’ to buy a desk… I would never join an office where people are proud of that.

I don't think improvised desks are inappropriate for early-stage startups, especially in the 1990s. Apple started in Steve Jobs parents garage.

Yeah but when I interviewed on site in Seattle for the S3 DevOps team, they kept bringing up how they all use cheap doors on concrete blocks for their desks to remind themselves of that “frugality” and that was just the first red flag of how weird their top-down corporate culture was at the time. This was in 2010.
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