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Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

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Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#331

Post by extraAccount »

schipplock wrote: post #315

there is Europass CV: https://europa.eu/europass/en/what-europass

As an EU citizen I always used the Europass CV. So far no Employer, HR rep or even LinkedIn Recuriters ever told me to create my own version. I think they appriciate it because they know what to expect and makes a very good template. And making your own is more likely to go wrong than just using the template. It is very comprehensive and they have an online tool that lets you create it without having any Word document installed.

Only downside is that it gets tricky to edit unless you use that online editor. You have to re-import it and edit it that way unless you want to play around with Microsoft Word. But the format is consistent and its easy to read.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#332

Post by lcrz »

Waterluvian wrote: post #19
dClauzel wrote: post #3

There is, thanks to the semantic web (the real web 3 :) ). See for example the FoaF ontology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOAF_(ontology)

Is the “semantic web” used in sensible, productive ways these days or does it remain an academic daydream? I’m highly skeptical of the whole concept and feel like I should have organically come across it by now.

The EU is heavily investing in semantic data for education and digital identity, leaning on ontologies, RDF, json-ld and verifiable credentials.

Banks, research institutes, universities are joined in large consortiums. The German hotel reservation example above is one of the projects that’s getting attention.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#333

Post by benreesman »

vanusa wrote: post #174
moralestapia wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Documents like these shouldn't be automatically processed, they should be reviewed by humans. That's very nice to think about but in the real world if people don't match some exact keywords they get thrown away. HR is looking for "node.js" but you wrote it like "nodejs"? Though luck pal, bye. HR wants a "computer scientist" but you have a degree in "computer science"? Same, automatically discarded. If anything, a st…

That's very nice to think about but in the real world if people don't match some exact keywords they get thrown away. This isn't the "real world" you're referring to here -- it's the fin-de-big-tech bubble world where everyone and their dog is not only sold, smack-down drunk on the idea that Algorithms and Data are the Solution to Your Problems. They aren't of course -- it's just a giant hornswoggle. This "world" nee…

I think you might be conflating two things:

- resume keyword scan (automated or otherwise)

- leetcode interviews

The former I think you’re spot-on. If you’re serious about hiring, some qualified to do so needs to be reading resumes.

The latter is complicated. I tend to agree that the industry has over-pivoted to “dynamic programming whiteboard puzzle” as the LSAT of high-paying software work. But while most seem to agree that leetcode interviews suck in tons of ways, something that is unambiguously superior seems to be an open problem.

And some algorithms and data structure testing is important for hard software work. Even choosing the right library requires some basics. Is every SWE at Amazon implementing CS papers every month? No, clearly not. But unless machine resources are free in your domain, brute-force doesn’t always work.

FANG people do in fact get elitist about their CMU educations. But there’s another crowd that throws the baby out with the bath water: “I solve business problems, not reverse linked lists.” Well, what kind of business problems don’t involve some computation?

It’s a balance that our industry seems to still be trying to find.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#334

Post by heisenbit »

The resume is a sales document for a complex product and that calls for differentiation. A strictly standardized and thus severely limited reflection of said product would serve neither buyer nor seller. It may however serve the platform provider (aka. HR) by saving processing costs and by being able to show they are getting the ‚best’ product for a given price.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#335

Post by roydivision »

OtomotO wrote: post #324
Biganon wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about communication, here. You want to be absolutely perfect in your CV, to prove that you've spent time and effort making it perfect. It serves no other purpose but to show your determination. If communication was the point, a long rant in which you write "yeah I worked with node.js, it was cool lol" would be OK as well, after all it gets the point across doesn't it?

There is no "absolutely perfect", especially in such a subjective topic as résumés. Mine certainly isn't, it's like me. Worked out so far. But then again, I wouldn't want to work for most companies. Pecunia olet!

Neither would I want to work for most companies, but I don’t want my options reduced by making stupid mistakes on my CV.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#336

Post by otherme123 »

heikkilevanto wrote: post #9

Why should there be? Resumes have to be read by humans to judge if they match what is needed. Checking boxes and matching buzzwords only gets you so far.

We are weeding out based on superficial and incomplete data all the time. When you go to a supermarket with plenty of options to buy tomato sauce, you don't read the ingredient list of everyone of them. Maybe you do a first skim towards some "bio" tag section, or to the cheapest one. Once there you scan for known brands, and only when you get only two or three remaining options you read the fine print.

Same when choosing a partner: the first thing you use to filter are looks, assuming the risk of filter out a below average looking person that will be your perfect match.

We, of course, delude ourselves into thinking that our method is 100% objective and unbiased. But it never is. Even if you read each one of the 1,000 CVs, you won't read the first one with the same energy you read the 950, and it's likely that you anchor on a given CV that you read among the first 20, and everyone after that is meassured against it.

CVs are by themselves only a proxy to a real person: why don't skip the CV and just interview everyone? Nobody's life fits in two pages.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#337

Post by andoli »

schipplock wrote: post #315

there is Europass CV: https://europa.eu/europass/en/what-europass

I can confirm in the EU europass is widely adopted.

I do not love it very much, but I appreciate the online tools to create/update them from XML descriptors, without having to mess with Word; on the other side, being a generic template, is not very fit to expose CS skills.

An employer I know (in the startup scene) said he trashed all europass CV as he assumed you are a dull corporate droid who did not even take time to write a customized CV...

(edit: grammar)

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#338

Post by vorhemus »

moralestapia wrote: post #91
jeroenhd wrote: post #42

In my opinion, there shouldn't be. Documents like these shouldn't be automatically processed, they should be reviewed by humans. Reducing someone's life history to a list of educational institutions and employers feels robotic even for a software developer's mindset. I understand that there are real life problems because companies do use automated processing on applications, but that kind of behaviour shouldn't be en…

>Documents like these shouldn't be automatically processed, they should be reviewed by humans. That's very nice to think about but in the real world if people don't match some exact keywords they get thrown away. HR is looking for "node.js" but you wrote it like "nodejs"? Though luck pal, bye. HR wants a "computer scientist" but you have a degree in "computer science"? Same, automatically discarded. If anything, a st…

This is a how things are handled at companies that get 500+ applications for each open position and/or are just incompetent. At smaller companies it is very likely that actual humans read a résumé without the keyword matching bullshit.

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#339

Post by neoromantique »

thomasfromcdnjs wrote: post #76
CalRobert wrote: post #22

There is! https://jsonresume.org/ But nobody really uses it for data interchange. I use it to render my resume in new layouts now and then. Although, it does let style dictate content sometimes (some templates force you to have dates down to the day for job start and end dates, etc.)

Json Resume is still going strong. I am one of the founders, I try to do a couple major maintenance periods per year. Currently I am working on updating all the community projects built, still got quite a few to add but currently there is -> https://jsonresume.org/projects/ I think over 3k+ people use the new Gist hosting. (In our old hosting we had around 10k resumes. Not including those who by pass the free communi…

Hey! Appreciate this product a lot, this has been my go-to with a One Page theme for years now :)

Re: Why isn't there a universal data format for résumés?

#340

Post by simongray »

Waterluvian wrote: post #19
dClauzel wrote: post #3

There is, thanks to the semantic web (the real web 3 :) ). See for example the FoaF ontology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOAF_(ontology)

Is the “semantic web” used in sensible, productive ways these days or does it remain an academic daydream? I’m highly skeptical of the whole concept and feel like I should have organically come across it by now.

If you get job where you need to merge graph data from a bunch of different sources, you will likely run into the semantic web stack. The semantic web stack is basically a bunch of technologies for building graph databases and sharing graph data across domains. It isn't some huge network of interlinked data sources like originally envisioned, but it is definitely not dead. I think the concept of graph databases is still something people are only beginning to discover the uses for. Most people only know of the initial XML serialisation of RDF and OWL which rightfully made people skeptical. Nowadays, the most common serialisation format is TURTLE which is basically just a subset of SPARQL and it is very readable.

In fact, the underlying technologies are all quite mature (triplestore implementations and the RDF, SPARQL, OWL, etc. standards) and used heavily in certain domains, such as biology and language. The standards are designed for easy serialisation and interoperability which is the antithesis of the "modern" walled garden and/or commercial API approach of the big Internet companies, although they also use semantic web tech to a certain extent.

In Europe, you will run into RDF quite often in academia (and research in general). I'm working on the newest version of the Danish WordNet, for example, which is published as RDF and OWL (in the turtle format) and which runs in Apache Jena. Coincidentally, I am actually developing this new version in Clojure which stole the triplestore concept from the semantic web stack and made it a mainstream database type in the Clojure ecosystem (Datomic, Datascript, Datahike, Datalevin, Asami).

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