Live data from Hacker News

Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

twitter.com

331–340 of 348 posts

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#331
post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't want any unvaccinated person near me because I am more likely to die as a consequence and I expect the Government to keep them away from me at all costs—for it is the constitutional duty of government to protect me as a citizen from threat and danger. The vaccines are not reasonably effective against transmission, especially for the current dominant strain, but also the previous ones. Vaccinated people are…

"The vaccines are not reasonably effective against transmission, especially for the current dominant strain, but also the previous ones. Vaccinated people are still infecting people..." Perhaps so, but those who are vaccinated shed less viral load, ipso facto it's less likely that another person would be infected. Same goes for masks: viral load is attenuated when someone with COVID breathes out, if an uninfected per…

> Why are people like you so damn negative about this and so deliberately intent in disrupting society when it's in such a state of stress? Why are so many of you so intent in trying to undermine and sabotage the rest of us when we're doing our darndest to try and protect ourselves from this cursed disease? You are forcing us to fight on two fronts and it's damn inconsiderate and selfish of you to do so.

> You may not care about your own lives but reasonable people are normally considerate of others.

Nothing but baseless accusations. I am not fighting against society, but against the tyranny of a mandate that makes no sense and can cause harm.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct thing to do at this point is really to exclude Australian Open from future glam slam. Just drop entire Australia from it. I get that they have the right to deny anyone in but they making this entire scene due PURELY as political brownie points. Sports should stay neutral. They (entiee Australia) should be punished for dragging sports into this. Better yet deny entire Australia from any world tennis events for…

When a clothes code is required in a club and you don't wear they don't let you enter , Djokovic knew the rules but lied and tried to go over them. But as he is famous you want us to let him in. I think that all the people that want to kiss Djokovic ass are free to do it but not everybody wants.

Dress code is nothing like a vaccine requirement. Two completely different things.

The government admitted the reason his visa was cancelled was because they're worried about public perception. In a country with already 95% fully vaxxed, they're worried about "anti-vaxxers" drawing inspiration from tennis players! It doesn't add up unless you allow for an embarrassingly irrational government.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#333
post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The roulette wheel is being spun with every injection. I think this aspect is underrepresented too. Having three jabs means having a 1/n chance three times, with varying n each time. We are not only talking about vaccine mandates, but also booster mandates. The basis for these is even thinner, because especially since Omicron, the benefit/risk ratio is even worse. The risk has not changed, while the benefits just vis…

> The roulette wheel is being spun with every injection. Yes - as with any medication. But my point is, it's some times seen as being a roulette wheel with the vaccine but no one mentions the elephant in the room which is that the side effects are at worst much more common, and at best about equal, with infection. Basically if you don't get vaccinated, you are spinning a worse roulette wheel. > The basis for these is…

> There are three levels of risk here. Individual risk, group risk (protecting people in a more vulnerable group, for example), and societal risk (preventing spread, or limiting the damage to publically funded healthcare by limiting your own risk). Now with omicron, the individual risk for a healthy 30 year old is obviously way down. The societal risk from the disease is very high due to infectivity (staff shortages etc), and the group risk is also rather high as the disease is still pretty bad for the oldest age group, especially without boosters.

So it seems like a good idea for vulnerable people to get boostered. People can protect themselves from severe disease with the vaccination. The evidence that others are protected through a vaccination is pretty much non-existent. A reduction of societal risk is not a strong argument in this case, because the absolute reduction of risk by the vaccine is very small. Below 3%. You need to vaccinate about 100 people in order to prevent one more case, based on data from before last April. I bet it is worse now with Omicron:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5...

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct thing to do at this point is really to exclude Australian Open from future glam slam. Just drop entire Australia from it. I get that they have the right to deny anyone in but they making this entire scene due PURELY as political brownie points. Sports should stay neutral. They (entiee Australia) should be punished for dragging sports into this. Better yet deny entire Australia from any world tennis events for…

”Sports should stay neutral.” Right, it should but that's not the issue. Right again, Australian politicians have fucked up their response to COVID on multiple occasions but so have other many countries—name one that hasn’t! And I include Serbia in that lot, it having only 50% of its citizens vaccinated; currently, it has one of the worst vaccination records in all Europe. Leaving Australia aside for the moment, ther…

> they're in place to save lives!

But not all lives. The whole population does not need to get vaccinated. Not everyone's life is under threat. Not even close.

Omicron spreads regardless, as is clearly observable. Australia has very high vaccination rate, but the virus is everywhere. Yet, they're still worried about unvaccinated sentiment?

It's important for vulnerable and elderly people to get vaccinated because their lives are the ones that can be saved.

Novak's life is not under threat from the virus. He chose not to be vaccinated for himself. Only a fool would get vaccinated for reasons of "perception".

The WHO chief warned countries recently that "you can't boost your way out of the pandemic". The AstraZenic scientist said recently the focus for vaccination should shift to elderly and vulnerable, as it's not feasible to vaccinate the whole world every few months.

"Hey man, even though you don't need it, can you please get vaccinated to encourage others to get the jab?".... Novak said no. And now the government believes the opposite is true - that Novak will influence perception in a direction that differs to the government's policy. See, the Australian government operates on what looks good or bad. Actual substance and practicality is down the list.

Now he's labelled an anti-vaxxer icon, a trouble-maker, and then booted out of the country. All he wanted to do was play some tennis. He's an ambassador for sport, fitness, and has done some great work over the years. To see him treated like this is a disgrace.

Everything else you said is irrelevant. End of the day, Novak was treated like crap because a politician wanted to look "tough on borders". Even though Omicron is everywhere down here, spreading among the vaccinated, there's an irrational and popular response that the 5% of unvaccinated people are somehow driving the pandemic.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#335
post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The roulette wheel is being spun with every injection. Yes - as with any medication. But my point is, it's some times seen as being a roulette wheel with the vaccine but no one mentions the elephant in the room which is that the side effects are at worst much more common, and at best about equal, with infection. Basically if you don't get vaccinated, you are spinning a worse roulette wheel. > The basis for these is…

> There are three levels of risk here. Individual risk, group risk (protecting people in a more vulnerable group, for example), and societal risk (preventing spread, or limiting the damage to publically funded healthcare by limiting your own risk). Now with omicron, the individual risk for a healthy 30 year old is obviously way down. The societal risk from the disease is very high due to infectivity (staff shortages…

> The evidence that others are protected through a vaccination is pretty much non-existent

No the evidence that it protects against severe disease is pretty strong. But there is no need to even go into that discussion.

The evidence that hospitals will be less stressed if more people are vaccinated, so that my risk of (say) getting care delayed for a heart attack or broken bone, is important.

> in order to prevent one more case

We aren't preventing nearly any cases now with Omicron. The protection is just too low. But the protection against severe disease and death is good. Everyone will get omicron (or a later even more infectious variant) eventually. The question is: how many of them will be severe? How flat will the peak be of severe cases?

Vaccinations at this point are about societal risk and severe disease. It's not about individual risk or preventing infection.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was all this the consequence of the vaccine or the Covid itself?

The half paralysis sounds like Guillain Barre syndrome which can happen after the flu vaccine, after the COVID vaccine or after gastroenteritis. It can be temporary or permanent or kill you. i

I know also 2 kids with terrible health condition after hexavaccine. And also friend of my parents that get dermatomyositis after hepatitis vaccine (back in 80's). His name was Julius Varga from Czechoslovakia (you can google more info, there is documentary about him with his mother: https://www.ceskatelevize.cz/porady/1185258379-cesty-viry/31...

Vaccines do harm.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of the proof that he faked his visa application is claiming he is vaccinated when he is not, and claiming he had not travelled in the week before boarding the plane when he had documented a trip to Spain while COVID-positive. The Spanish government is now investigating whether Novak Djokovic travelled to Spain illegally, so there’s more legal shenanigans waiting for him when he eventually gets home. The reason n…

"event associated with government cronies then all stops are pulled." No doubt very true for the first round. On the second when things go belly-up, as here, they'll scatter like wildebeest being chased by a lion. The second time usually brings unwelcome exposure and much else.

No, this lot have learned that there are zero consequences for being openly lazy and corrupt. They broadcast their intent to pork barrel and people vote for them because of that.

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#339
post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't want any unvaccinated person near me because I am more likely to die as a consequence and I expect the Government to keep them away from me at all costs—for it is the constitutional duty of government to protect me as a citizen from threat and danger. The vaccines are not reasonably effective against transmission, especially for the current dominant strain, but also the previous ones. Vaccinated people are…

"The vaccines are not reasonably effective against transmission, especially for the current dominant strain, but also the previous ones. Vaccinated people are still infecting people..." Perhaps so, but those who are vaccinated shed less viral load, ipso facto it's less likely that another person would be infected. Same goes for masks: viral load is attenuated when someone with COVID breathes out, if an uninfected per…

> Why are people like you so damn negative about this and so deliberately intent in disrupting society when it's in such a state of stress? Why are so many of you so intent in trying to undermine and sabotage the rest of us when we're doing our darndest to try and protect ourselves from this cursed disease?

It is pretty simple, actually.

When facing a critical situation one need to (A) do as much as possible to rectify it, and (B) don't do anything that counter- or non-productive in the context. In other words, all resources must be thrown into useful action and none into useless. People are generally not bad judges of what is entirely counterproductive. No-one is wearing the seatbelts while riding the bicycle, or wearing condom outside of specific situation, "just in case" they may not have time to put it on. To "us" - I think I may identify with your "people like you" - the stuff from (B) is a sign that situation is not that critical, if we still can afford being frivolous. Remember, trust, goodwill and compliance are resources just like everything else.

So, in case of this cursed disease we had the following measures implemented, among many:

- 9-5 curfew in VIC, AU, summarily for 5 or 6 months out of the last 20. I'm sensing that you may be familiar with that.

- Mandatory face coverings even when solo walking in the middle of nowhere. According to Premier, "we cannot afford to discuss the alternative, too esoteric"

- 5km limit of movement. So one couldn't go for a beach walk with kids, but junkies could go to the city's "injection room" because it is "essential medical care".

All the above was imposed with total confidence ("You cannot argue with super-computer!" - literal quote from the Premier), backed by riot police with rubber bullets. And then fought tooth and nail in the court to not reveal the "health advice" behind it, because, apparently, it is "not in the public interest".

In the absence of the explanation about how the above contribute to disease protection it is not clear for "us" why it is on "us" to keep patience and be "considerate", but not on the "authorities" to do their job and think about outcome of their actions. I cannot imagine a malady that can be meaningfully alleviated with curfew or solo mask wearing. I cannot reason about lives saved by my family not going for a remote bushwalk. I can imagine that such things may be useful for intimidation and humiliation - not a good way to foster trust, isn't it? I, personally, would be more receptive to authorities' calls if they listened and, maybe, did not do things which are openly hostile and otherwise useless. You know, if they are "reasonable" and "considerate"!

Re: Novak Djokovic's Visa Cancelled by Australian Minister for Immigration

#340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When a clothes code is required in a club and you don't wear they don't let you enter , Djokovic knew the rules but lied and tried to go over them. But as he is famous you want us to let him in. I think that all the people that want to kiss Djokovic ass are free to do it but not everybody wants.

Dress code is nothing like a vaccine requirement. Two completely different things. The government admitted the reason his visa was cancelled was because they're worried about public perception. In a country with already 95% fully vaxxed, they're worried about "anti-vaxxers" drawing inspiration from tennis players! It doesn't add up unless you allow for an embarrassingly irrational government.

His visa was cancelled because they found inconsistencies (lies). He outright lied filling the papers, any other person would have been kicked out without a doubt. He later blamed his assistants for it. In the same case you would be in jail but as is a famous person he gets an special treatment. He brought it on himself. He thought he could get away with it but it looks like it wasn't the right moment. The funny thing is all the people defending him like he's a freedom fighter when he's just a spoiled brat. and now let's see France and USA.
Post reply on HN