Health care is turning into a consumer product • Hacker News Board

Re: Health care is turning into a consumer product

#331

Post by dontreact » Wed, Jan 12, 2022, 1:22 AM UTC

rscho wrote: post #304

dontreact wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Japanese system is not a single payer healthcare system and in terms of outcomes vs. cost is one of the best in the world, so I am not so sure that single-payer is the most reasonable solution. Particularly in the US where voters are averse to giving up their private insurance. Japanese system does have a public option and much tighter price controls, which we are missing here.

What the US is missing to achieve that is japanese culture. It can't work the same or even similar.

I totally agree that culture is a big factor. I just think the conversation in the US around healthcare is kind of limited to pro or anti “Medicare for all” when there are actually many ways of doing things which do not require a single payer. Japan is just one example, Germany is another.

Obviously we shouldn’t just exactly copy the system of other countries, but it’s equally shortsighted to not learn take away anything from other existing systems. The possibility for universal coverage and higher cost efficiency without the need for single payer I think is a valid thing to take away from those examples.

Re: Health care is turning into a consumer product

#332

Post by shakkhar » Wed, Jan 12, 2022, 6:31 AM UTC

arethuza wrote: post #279

majormajor wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is always extra annoying because it might be a false savings to pay cash there. Let's say your MRI says you need a $5500 procedure, and your plan's deductible is $3000, 90% coverage after, and out of pocket max is $6000, and there's nothing else you've spent on the plan this year. Pay $800 for MRI with insurance, you'll then pay $2200 for the procedure to hit the deductible + 10% of the remaining $3300, so $2530…

Do you folks have to perform these calculations every time someone in your family gets sick or injured?

No. I know that my total expense in a given year will never exceed $X (Premium + out-of-pocket max). Worrying about every single transaction is not worth it.

Re: Health care is turning into a consumer product

#333

Post by Griffinsauce » Wed, Jan 12, 2022, 7:44 AM UTC

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #53

Griffinsauce wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"- Removing the capacity for lobbying by insurance companies, large hospital groups, device and pharma companies." This should be step one, always. While those perverse incentives exist everything else is an uphill battle.

>This should be step one, always. No, no it shouldn't There's a really, really, really fine line to walk between preventing the AMA from lobbying congress to screw us and preventing actual grass roots people from paying someone to argue on their behalf.

Strongly disagree, that fine line will always be stretched beyond your definitions.

Besides, without lobbying groups working against you, the feedback loop of voting them out actually starts working. (no it's not a complete solution so please don't argue against that straw man, it's just the most important first step to unblock others)

Edit: clarity

Re: Health care is turning into a consumer product

#334

Post by sershe » Wed, Jan 12, 2022, 5:04 PM UTC

throwawaygh wrote: post #300

hitpointdrew wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the fact that healthcare is already a consumer product in the US I would strongly disagree with this. Healthcare in the US is currently a cartel system, not a consumer product/market system. If healthcare were a consumer product then: 1. It wouldn't be tied to or dependent on my employment. 2. Prices for medical treatment wouldn't be hidden/obfuscated by medical providers. 3. Insurance providers wouldn't be restric…

It's not (just) about whether healthcare is a human right. E.g., interstate transportation on surface roads isn't a human right, but markets lost out to collective action. Why? Because building a well-functioning market for 8 lane interstates across an entire mostly-rural country was impossible in the 20th century (and probably still is). So, the other important question to ask is the following: how feasible is it to…

To add to the other comment about public-private competition (another example is schools - parents in private schools pay for both), the mostly-private industry managed to build inter-city railroads and local streetcars just fine. It is not obvious that it wouldn't eventually build highways if there was vision and/or existing demand.

Who knows, it might have even achieved a reasonable balance between the two, instead of forcing a car-centric environment everywhere like the public option? ;)