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Underrated Reasons to Be Thankful

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Re: Underrated Reasons to Be Thankful

#331

Post by WalterBright »

mysticmode wrote: post #314
WalterBright wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know that some people are predisposed to addiction. It's harder for them, sure, but becoming an addict is still a choice for them. I know some who chose to get and stay clean, too, despite being predisposed. I wager that poor people are far better at recognizing addiction than non-poor. I hired a stoner once, not recognizing it. He robbed the company blind to pay his dealer. Social workers are always trying to get…

This is a sort of response that makes the conversation stink and as well has no optimal solution would come out. > I know that some people I know that this writing will make no change in your bigoted perception but at-least it might to others. So, I'm writing it. Addiction is NOT a choice, and it is a form of chemical imbalance that happens in our complex brain that makes the person get into addiction with any substa…

> Addiction is NOT a choice

Drinking alcohol is a choice, so is sticking the needle in your arm.

> likely not from you

I support programs for treatment for addicts. Successful treatment, however, involves the addicts accepting responsibility. Nobody ever said recovery is easy. It isn't. Compassion is in order to help them recover.

But ultimately it's still up to them to make the choice.

Re: Underrated Reasons to Be Thankful

#332

Post by WalterBright »

WalterBright wrote: post #229
pkdpic wrote: post #176

Im thankful to have a job and a roof over my head and a little bit of savings. Not having to really worry about money still blows my mind now and then. Looking across the street every day in California and seeing the homelessness crisis in full swing is an ever present reminder of what this economy and this society can do to you if you slip up for even a second and / or have even a minor run of bad luck. Working in s…

In Seattle anyway, 90% of the homeless are either drug addicts or alcoholics. Becoming one is a choice under your control, not god smiting you. > Working in software is a heluva lot better than stoop labor, what people have done for millennia. Every time I work on the yard I'm reminded again at how hard stoop labor is, and how I'm glad to work sitting in a comfy chair in a warm house with the stereo playing in the ba…

For those who disagree, take a look at Alcoholics Anonymous. It's about making choices. I don't believe it is a mean, heartless, compassion-less organization.

Re: Underrated Reasons to Be Thankful

#333

Post by WalterBright »

dave1999x wrote: post #327
WalterBright wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I'd visit London on business in the 80's, the homeless were very much present and visible. The concierge at the hotel told me not to leave the hotel before 6AM (I had jet lag and was headed out for a walk) because I'd be easy meat.

London really cleaned up in the 90s. There is still visible homeless, but nothing like US cities with homeless camps. Officially, there are a lot of "homeless" but far fewer "unsheltered"

I've lived in Seattle since the 70s. I never saw tents until recently.

Re: Underrated Reasons to Be Thankful

#334

Post by xpe »

WalterBright wrote: post #329
xpe wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Describing human actions as either ‘under one’s control’ or ‘not’ is an oversimplified and inaccurate world view. I think the evidence suggests a different understanding: 1. One individual’s willpower varies significantly over time (over a day for example) 2. One individual’s set of options varies in many ways — not limited to education, awareness, culture, economic opportunity, and luck. 3. Many important actions ar…

I understand that today it is popular to assert that people are just hapless victims of circumstance, that they don't have agency. I don't buy it. Furthermore, when people take responsibility for their lives, they tend to have much better outcomes. I'm old, and I've observed this play out constantly. Blaming others and circumstance might make one feel better, but it is completely useless . And lastly, successful trea…

> I understand that today it is popular to assert that people are just hapless victims of circumstance, that they don't have agency.

I didn't assert that.

Re: Underrated Reasons to Be Thankful

#335

Post by xpe »

WalterBright wrote: post #229
pkdpic wrote: post #176

Im thankful to have a job and a roof over my head and a little bit of savings. Not having to really worry about money still blows my mind now and then. Looking across the street every day in California and seeing the homelessness crisis in full swing is an ever present reminder of what this economy and this society can do to you if you slip up for even a second and / or have even a minor run of bad luck. Working in s…

In Seattle anyway, 90% of the homeless are either drug addicts or alcoholics. Becoming one is a choice under your control, not god smiting you. > Working in software is a heluva lot better than stoop labor, what people have done for millennia. Every time I work on the yard I'm reminded again at how hard stoop labor is, and how I'm glad to work sitting in a comfy chair in a warm house with the stereo playing in the ba…

> In Seattle anyway, 90% of the homeless are either drug addicts or alcoholics.

You wrote "90%" -- a specific figure -- as opposed to writing "most" or "many". Why did you choose this number? Do you have a reference you can share?

Re: Underrated Reasons to Be Thankful

#336

Post by xpe »

jll29 wrote: post #14

I like this more unusual list of things to be grateful for, as it complements well what one is usually reminded to be grateful for. I'd like a more fundamental point there, though: Gratefulness seems to be primarily a ternary operator: " is grateful to for ." (like "a ? b : c" in C). That second SOMEONE is the one that the being grateful is directed at, as they are responsible for things being the way they are. (Bein…

> Does that not mean that every grateful person acknowledges God's existence, at least implicitly?

I'm not following.

Re: Underrated Reasons to Be Thankful

#337

Post by xpe »

jll29 wrote: post #14

I like this more unusual list of things to be grateful for, as it complements well what one is usually reminded to be grateful for. I'd like a more fundamental point there, though: Gratefulness seems to be primarily a ternary operator: " is grateful to for ." (like "a ? b : c" in C). That second SOMEONE is the one that the being grateful is directed at, as they are responsible for things being the way they are. (Bein…

> That second SOMEONE is the one that the being grateful is directed at, as they are responsible for things being the way they are. (Being grateful to anyone not causally connected to what one is grateful about seems most weird.)

It is also common to be grateful to for . For example, I'm grateful to various people for who they are, by which I mean their worldview, their values, and their personality. Generally speaking, these aspects are not under full control of the individual -- they are the result of a complex interaction of their genetics, their experiences, their intentions, their opportunities, their choices, their habits, and much more.

Re: Underrated Reasons to Be Thankful

#338

Post by xpe »

WalterBright wrote: post #302
adriand wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A heartless and uninformed perspective that is all too common among people born into privilege (you may not have been but in my experience, most people who believe this were). The majority of addicts are people who have experienced trauma. Often this is childhood trauma, specifically sexual, emotional or physical abuse. Of course it may also have occurred in adulthood. Veterans are one common example but there are mi…

I never said compassion was unhelpful. If compassion helps an addict choose to stop using, great! But it's still, in the end, the addict's choice.

> But it's still, in the end, the addict's choice.

It seems to me your language above suffers from a false dichotomy.

One might start with a binary question such as "Do we have free will or not?".

However, a better question is "Under what conditions and to what extent are we conscious of our choices, rational in how we evaluate them, and informed enough to predict how they will play out?"

Re: Underrated Reasons to Be Thankful

#339

Post by sm4rk0 »

arduinomancer wrote: post #208
sm4rk0 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's really weird. I'm not thankful for aspartame or other sweeteners, and even less thankful for corrupt food agencies approving them. Refined sugars aren't healthy, but aspartame isn't a solution. In my household, a kilogram of sugar lasts for months if not a year. Yes, we do buy food with added sugar, but always avoid artificial sweeteners, except when they are unavoidable in drugs or food supplements. I'm 192cm…

What science are you basing that on?

I'm basing it on common sense: don't take anything artificial if you don't have to.

The same science claimed that DDT is safe, eating sugar is good, mRNA vaccines are safe, etc.

Re: Underrated Reasons to Be Thankful

#340

Post by achillesheels »

__s wrote: post #39
achillesheels wrote: post #32

That even though we evolved as ruthless replication machines, we’ve somehow risen out of the muck and we currently find ourselves running cultural software that’s way out of sync with what game theory would dictate, and perhaps we can seize the moment and build a civilization that can tame the brutal dynamics that created us. This. Our scientific understanding on how humans cooperate to not simply feed each other, bu…

?? I feel quite the opposite. Game theory helps understand why people act, & it let's you reverse engineer what they really value, as opposed to what they claim to value It's like saying physics has been conquered because airplanes should fall out of the sky. No, your existing notion was flawed, but reality didn't change People don't act towards incentives because of game theory, it's that game theory models their in…

I look at things from our universal cellular life substrate which ends up ordering ourselves to such civilized dynamics. That natural substance is still propelling ourselves, beyond contract laws - it is not up to profit motivation to end inter generational violence. If anything, there is profit motivation to keep being brutal! It requires simply the technological possibility - now becoming realized - to enlighten the human race on what is proper accordance with natural motion.
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