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California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

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Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#331

Post by alephr »

robotburrito wrote: post #78
friedman23 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many people that are good at math and love science / engineering decide to go into politics? I'm just talking without evidence but my guess is politics self selects for ambitious people that are completely inept when it comes to mathematics and critical thinking in general.

I think quite a bit. Congress regularly beats high end Wall Street investors when it comes to playing the equities market. This involves a great deal of understanding on mathematics topics involving everything from stats, probability and economics. They manage to do this part time while governing, so I'd have to say they are pretty adept. I could be missing something though.

Is there any evidence for this or is this just trendy and shallow politician hate?

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#332

Post by xsmasher »

jdkee wrote: post #33

"A key sticking point in the approval process has been the framework’s recommendation that teachers refrain from labeling students as “naturally talented” in math. This has led to accusations from parents and educators that it holds back “gifted” students." Along with NYC mayor deBlasio seeking to terminate that city's gifted and talented education programs as well as Virginia's recent approach to "equity" by deconte…

The podcast "Nice White Parents" makes a good case that gifted programs in NYC were essentially used to create two separate-and-unequal systems of education for black and white students inside the public schools.

If you don't want to call that a "racist" system we can call it an unequal system or a caste system; but the trend you're seeing is an effort to fix that system.

The people who were (unknowingly?) on the PLUS side of the equation, they're going to complain loudly as it gets leveled out.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#333

Post by sokoloff »

chrisseaton wrote: post #288
sokoloff wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both my parents were public school math teachers. There are gradations of teaching qualifications* in some districts and, even where there aren’t, the math department head usually knows which teachers are incapable of teaching beyond Algebra II or incapable of teaching specifically Calculus. Presumably, if a teacher has ever been assigned to teach a Calculus class, they are a Calculus teacher. * Concrete example: our…

I don't really get how you can be a mathematics teacher and not know enough to be able to teach calculus? Like surely you've done calculus yourself?

One of the high school math teachers explained to my brother “the square root of 2 is irrational because it says so on page XYZ” (true story). I’d say it’s fair to conclude that there exist math teachers who’ve taken Calc who can’t teach it.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#334

Post by nimish »

bko wrote: post #272
Eelongate wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This policy has nothing to do with the topic of algebra. This is code for advanced math, because algebra is typically considered advanced for I sincerely hope you're not serious about this. I took algebra in 7th grade and I was considered a remedial student with habitually poor grades. If you're telling me I was actually 2 years advanced by present standards, then the situation in California must be deteriorating s…

I don't know what to tell you. That's the state of the country. But hey, at least they're honest about why they're doing it: > San Francisco pioneered key aspects of the new approach, opting in 2014 to delay algebra instruction until 9th grade and to push advanced mathematics courses until at least after 10th grade as a means of promoting equity. The school failed the most vulnerable children by objective measures, s…

Yep it seems like the "equitable" solution to failing children is to simply redefine success.

Really, truly worrying that instead of focusing resources to help kids improve and overcome a challenge the answer is to remove the challenge instead.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#335

Post by s5300 »

Eelongate wrote: post #165
bko wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This policy has nothing to do with the topic of algebra. This is code for advanced math, because algebra is typically considered advanced for < 9th grade children. Since the organizations feel ashamed that they're failing certain demographics as evidenced by being under-represented in the advanced classes, they're just scrapping the advanced classes for everyone. Truly disgraceful

> This policy has nothing to do with the topic of algebra. This is code for advanced math, because algebra is typically considered advanced for I sincerely hope you're not serious about this. I took algebra in 7th grade and I was considered a remedial student with habitually poor grades. If you're telling me I was actually 2 years advanced by present standards, then the situation in California must be deteriorating s…

> then the situation in California must be deteriorating severely.

Hmm…

Worlds 5th largest GDP, internationally desirable cities, some of the highest housing prices that’s always being bought over asking price, often in cash - internationally acclaimed state wide university system, one of the cultural & academic centers of the nation…

I know it’s like, my opinion, but I think the situation in California is fine. I’d look towards the states that have ranked last & near last in education for decades without any movement in a better direction before commenting on California.

Even more, for those who do well enough in k-12 in those dead last states… well, they brain drain to greener pastures. Like California.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#336

Post by jcranmer »

chrisseaton wrote: post #288
sokoloff wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both my parents were public school math teachers. There are gradations of teaching qualifications* in some districts and, even where there aren’t, the math department head usually knows which teachers are incapable of teaching beyond Algebra II or incapable of teaching specifically Calculus. Presumably, if a teacher has ever been assigned to teach a Calculus class, they are a Calculus teacher. * Concrete example: our…

I don't really get how you can be a mathematics teacher and not know enough to be able to teach calculus? Like surely you've done calculus yourself?

Just because you know it doesn't mean you have the pedagogical skills to help somebody else know it. By way of example, I am more than competent at introductory computer science yet I am wholly incompetent at teaching it--were a student to need help with something that basic in CS, I wouldn't know how to go about helping them understand, since I don't understand why they might not be understanding something.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#338

Post by thereisnospork »

holonomically wrote: post #300
thereisnospork wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In order to teach everyone the same thing you can only teach as much as the stupidest and least motivated person can grasp.

I don't see how that follows.

everyone is a set which includes anyone.

If all (e.g.) 7th graders must have the same knowledge of math, that knowledge of math cannot exceed the knowledge attainable by the dumbest (read: any) 7th grader. This is tautologically true.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#339

Post by s5300 »

bko wrote: post #272
Eelongate wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This policy has nothing to do with the topic of algebra. This is code for advanced math, because algebra is typically considered advanced for I sincerely hope you're not serious about this. I took algebra in 7th grade and I was considered a remedial student with habitually poor grades. If you're telling me I was actually 2 years advanced by present standards, then the situation in California must be deteriorating s…

I don't know what to tell you. That's the state of the country. But hey, at least they're honest about why they're doing it: > San Francisco pioneered key aspects of the new approach, opting in 2014 to delay algebra instruction until 9th grade and to push advanced mathematics courses until at least after 10th grade as a means of promoting equity. The school failed the most vulnerable children by objective measures, s…

When commenting on the state of the country, I would look towards the states that have historically ranked poorly in education and see why they’re never improving. California is definitely not one of those states & seems to have no issue in keeping a higher than average educated populace.

Re: California moves to recommend delaying algebra to 9th grade statewide

#340

Post by [deleted] »

Jach wrote: post #279
Eelongate wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This policy has nothing to do with the topic of algebra. This is code for advanced math, because algebra is typically considered advanced for I sincerely hope you're not serious about this. I took algebra in 7th grade and I was considered a remedial student with habitually poor grades. If you're telling me I was actually 2 years advanced by present standards, then the situation in California must be deteriorating s…

For another data point, I took it in 7th grade too, that was only--oh god 2003 was nearly 20 years ago. Anyway, it was considered one year early for my public school district in Utah. Me and a few others in my 6th grade class who had good math grades were offered the chance to sign up for it early if we were able to pass a test administered by the junior high. I don't remember what the test had on it, I do remember a…

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