Earlier quoted context omitted.
The purpose of school is train children to function in the real world. I don't understand how you can see a child from a disadvantaged background and say "let's help them by teaching them less"? If you wanted to help kids from a disadvantaged background, probably the best way would be to make it harder for them to get good grades. Make them work twice as hard as the other kids for the same grade, that will really mak…
> I don't understand how you can see a child from a disadvantaged background and say "let's help them by teaching them less"? No one is saying "let's teach them less". > If you wanted to help kids from a disadvantaged background, probably the best way would be to make it harder for them to get good grades Oh wow I see now there's no point even trying to reply
Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading
331–340 of 359 posts
Re: Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading
#332Earlier quoted context omitted.
> annual organized bus trip to Disneyland for Caltech students Huh, I was in Page House in 1977, and never heard of that. I do recall the whole House trooping off to see the premier of Star Wars :-)
Star Wars came out the summer before I got to Caltech. I don't remember how many years ahead of me you were--were you still there when The Empire Strikes Back came out in 1980? Someone on Caltech's board was also high up at the studio and arranged for two free showings at Caltech a week before release. One showing was for undergraduates, and one was for faculty and board members. I think there were only a few undergr…
I was also off-campus for the 78-79 year, which in retrospect was a mistake, as that caused me to miss a lot of went on.
I'm wondering if the Disneyland trips started in 78-79?
Anyhow, fun story about the Chinese students!
We also had Page House excursions to the premier of Alien, which was pretty exciting for me, whereas today doesn't even elicit a flicker of interest :-/
The best was a House excursion to see Animal House. The one-liners from that movie became memes from the next year. One dude was taking an extra year to get his degree, and all year people would pass him in the hall with 5 years of college down the drain!.
It's nice to see a fellow techer here on HN, especially a vintage 1970s one!
Re: Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading
#333Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have a good friend who is a super talented software engineer. She's at Google these days, but has been at a lot of cool startups. When I met her, she was working at NASA. A super brilliant person, who can basically solve any problem you throw at her. NASA had assigned her to be in charge of a pile of shitty LabView code used to run a massive "freezer" whose purpose is to be used on rare occasions to test hardware a…
Mwell, that is reminiscent of my experience in $LARGE_CORP where I was hired with a few years experience as a soft. eng. and was given a completely nontechnical role (I was supposed to make wireframes in PowerPoint), while a new graduate who was hired at the same time as myself was put in a "hands on" coding position. That other hire was a guy. My explanation was that $LARGE_CORP simply thought that, hey, she's a chi…
Sucks that they did that to you. Utter garbage.... but yeah, waste is what big orgs do.
Re: Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading
#334Earlier quoted context omitted.
Let me guess: You don't have kids in school, do you? It amazes me how many people with absolutely no skin in the game comment on this stuff.
I was literally a teacher in a poor school district. I am looking at it from a different perspective, but that doesn't mean my opinion is inherently not valuable. Yes, it might out work great for those kids who can take advantage. But all those who can't are left behind. And actually be left even more behind, especially as all the extra money that would be going to their school flows out. But, hey, they're not your k…
I was one of those kids. My mother was a drug addict, I spent a large portion of my childhood in a trailer park. There was nothing a teacher could do without me having a structured home life. She would frequently interrupt me when I tried to do my homework, and then yell at me 2 hours later for not having it done. She undermined my teachers at every turn, and when they called to complain about my behavior, she took my side instead of theirs. Once I was provided this structured home life (courtesy of the courts finally giving my father custody of me and my siblings and getting us away from our psycho mother) suddenly I was able to focus on school. If I disrespected a teacher, one phone call to my dad, and I was faced with a terrifying man who made my life hell. This was a powerful incentive to behave for the teachers, and do my homework as well. Bad behavior at school resulted in consequences for me at home.
The current public school system isn't capable of fixing this problem. You are just throwing good money after bad, and dragging the kids who would do well in a better school down with the kids whose homes make it impossible for school to do any good.
Geoffrey Canada's Harlem Children's Zone is an example of a model that works. He keeps the kids at school for very long hours, and minimizes the time they are at home.
Public schools were not designed or intended to replace the role of functioning families. Trying to force them into that role is a bad idea, and very ineffective and wasteful. Society has changed, an increasingly large percentage of kids across all ethnic groups (except for Asian Americans) are living in single parent homes. You were a teacher, so I think you are aware of. the fact that they are going back to homes where they are entertained by screens all night. The parents frequently throw their hands in the air, and ask "how can I keep him off video games?" seemingly unaware of the fact that they can take the controllers/phone/laptop whatever away and god forbid take the TV out of the kid's room. The point is that teachers can't fix this.
Teacher's unions and public school districts are incentivized to pretend they are capable of addressing the problem, provided they get more money. That's what institutions and organizations do, after all. They always want to expand their scope, get more personnel, do more, and get paid for it. It's dumb in this case.
Re: Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading
#335Because of all this I’m super tough on young people that come to work with me. The first thing I tell them is that this is not school anymore. The second thing I tell them is that what they learned in college does not apply here, so forget everything that happened there. Thirdly, I push them super hard. Fourthly, I fire people quickly. Finally, because of this, I go through a good number of people, but the best ones…
I wish you were sarcastic. You're basically ruining people instead of helping them grow. But you probably think "it's not my job" anyway.
Re: Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading
#336Earlier quoted context omitted.
They mention that because it emphasizes their other point. It's the equivalent of "I'm a vegetarian but even I drool at the thought of bacon". You don't have to mention that you're vegetarian....it's there because it places extra emphasis on how appealing bacon can be. sigh did I really to break it down like that
When a comment appears to a be a troll, is overly hostile, etc it's usually helpful to look at the account creation date and their posts history before bothering with a response. Sometimes it's someone with a varied history burning karma for a topic they are passionate about, but in this posters history it's obviously not.
Re: Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading
#337Earlier quoted context omitted.
No it is fear I’ll be on the operating table with a surgeon who has been trained to think that if he botches something there is a do over.
Can you tell me the difference between a 4.0 and a 3.9? Usually I find it to be a ~1-2%! That 1% difference is just one sign error, rounding mistake or miss read question on a midterm! However that difference between how that looks on your transcript is extremely substantial. I feel like 1% is just waaay to “accurate” for teachers to handle! Finding a good teacher is much more important than working hard or understan…
Re: Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading
#338Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well you learn to deal with it by being subjected to it. If you treat people like they're fragile, and don't apply this kind of pressure, they will grow up as fragile.
This is fascinating and new to me. What's your evidence?
Re: Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading
#339Earlier quoted context omitted.
The system would be different, but it can be done. Most people hear vouchers and they think "the other large public school across town or the existing private school". The real goal is many more small schools. Enabling "educational entrepreneurship" so somebody who has an idea that thinks will work really well for certain types of kids can start a school teaching exactly that way...and parents can sign up if they thi…
> The real goal is many more small schools. That's not what will happen, though. What'll happen is you'll get big players owning most the schools, all teaching the same way and same stuff (and if there's no oversight, they can also teach anything , even creationism). Capitalism won't allow this to happen. > Even with larger schools and bus routes, the solution is to create hubs where you can get off one one bus and h…
Big players owning the schools also becomes a huge risk since parents can easily just go elsewhere. Those big players would have to be doing a very good job to keep everybody, compared with the current situation where most people seem to do it because they have no choice.
Where in the world are you seeing a school bus route that goes 2 hours each way? Ideally, the creation of schools a lot closer to those kids would become possible.
And a transport hub is perfectly normal and even reasonable. It simplifies the entire pickup and drop off process. Who knows, maybe UPS can show us how it’s done?
Re: Faced with soaring Ds and Fs, schools are ditching the old way of grading
#340Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is fascinating and new to me. What's your evidence?
In practically every sphere of human activity people are unskilled and get better through practice. Why would handling stress/anxiety be any different?
A small amount of urgency can be helpful, but ideally it should be intrinsic (i.e. someone screaming at you or giving you letter grades is nowhere near as motivating as feeling that you can almost do it) and it's very easy to overshoot.