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Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages

eurasianet.org

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Re: Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages

#331

Post by ilammy »

AlexandrB wrote: post #300
zherbert wrote: post #261

Bitcoin mining incentivizes the plentiful production of cheap electricity. This will make it so that there are no such thing as power shortages in the future and push us towards a Type I civilization on the Kardashev scale. Bitcoin mining reduces the risk for energy generation projects, because they no longer need to worry about who will purchase the extra capacity. Bitcoin mining can act as a load-balancer for the g…

Breaking windows incentivizes the plentiful production of new windows. This will make it so that there is no such thing as window shortages in the future.

In a way, yes. If windows didn't break, that hurts profits of window-making companies, and makes them all go out of business, leaving people without jobs, etc. Once everyone has a Forever Window there will be no one to sell new windows to, and there's hardly much innovation left in the field of windows. Planned obsolescence is a thing.

Re: Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages

#332

Post by [deleted] »

cletus wrote: post #57

And so it begins. In the developed world in particular, we're seeing the move away from fossil-fuel power. This is good but currently relatively expensive. Crypto mining is starting to have very real impact on the ability of other people to live. It is adversely and disproportionately affecting poor people (who pay a greater share of their income for power). And at best crypto provides extremely limited utility for s…

[deleted]

Re: Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages

#333

Post by rfd4sgmk8u »

crummy wrote: post #324
rfd4sgmk8u wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who has been in this space a long time, I assure you I am idealistic in my positions. Hopelessly idealistic. What does Ban even mean? That it is illegal to run in places like the US? Very unlikely, and as more institutional money flows into it, it grows more unlikely. Some places are starting to put 401k/pension funds into it. Some places are raising it as legal tender. There is also that 1st amendment thi…

How is the first amendment relevant here?

The early cryptography wars were fought over code as speech.

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/04/remembering-case-estab...

There is an argument to be made that running software that speaks a protocol is an extension of speech.

The mental position that wants to ban cryptocurrency is the same one that that wanted to ban/suppress cryptography in the 90s.

Re: Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages

#334

Post by rfd4sgmk8u »

TomSwirly wrote: post #273
matheusmoreira wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you think I'm a multi-level marketer? Is it even possible to prove otherwise? I just happen to believe in that project and like to talk about it. Am I supposed to not talk about this stuff? I don't particularly care that energy is being spent on cryptocurrency. What I hate is the fact that energy is being spent on bitcoin in particular. The energy is not supposed to be wasted, it's supposed to buy us something . N…

> Namely, a decentralized, private, anonymous, uncensorable, unsanctionable digital cash network. In other words, the perfect ability to money launder, evade taxes and purchase contraband. Great. But what would a law-abiding person do with this?

Why would law-abiding citizens need untraceable, anonymous cash (which is used in 99.99% of crime). This is not a good argument. There are plenty of uses for privacy beyond crime. It is the equivalence of the 'you have nothing to hide' argument, which is total authoritarian bs.

'I have nothing to share'.

Re: Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages

#335

Post by jamincan »

dogman144 wrote: post #260
jamincan wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's on the order of 7+ million people within 150km of the dam. I don't think I would call that remote.

Lol your 150km loop captures Ottawa, Montreal and Kingston in Canada and Watertown/Plattsburgh NY. All of these are about as apples to oranges in relation to geographic ties to Massena as you can get. Between Massena and those places is a whole lot of nothing for a couple hours. That's like saying there is some meaningful geographic tie between Bethlehem, PA and NYC (133km), or that "Unity House, PA" is not remote be…

Perhaps Massena is geographically remote and isolated then, but it is certainly not when it comes to the electrical system, which is what is being discussed here. There is plenty of existing transmission capacity to export hydroelectric power from Massena even without Alcoa and Coinmint.

Re: Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages

#336

Post by politician »

u2c4m6 wrote: post #317
politician wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PoW crypocurrencies are global communications systems that offer nonrepudiation, instant settlement, and finality; a subset additionally offer privacy. It's valuable to people who need those guarantees. There are speculators in every market.

What crypto currency offers privacy?

Monero

Re: Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages

#337

Post by azth »

ilammy wrote: post #327
azth wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Interest is not the same as usury whatever definition you use. In Islam, there is no difference. If I lend you $10,000 and I ask for $10,000.01 back, that $.01 is usury. They are equal because both operate on the same exploitation principle, that not only pries on the poor, but exacerbates the wealth inequality gap that everyone is complaining about today. Once the door is open to artificially differentiate the two…

> use money in a moral way to extract value over time, by taking appropriate risk in a manner that is not exploitative I've been reading on islamic banking recently, and I have to say that it appears one can arrive at a consistent philosophy and working economics with usury being prohibited. The world won't grind to a halt because capital is no longer entitled to gains by the virtue of purely existing, as opposed to…

It's great you're reading up on it. I would however, exercise caution as to what falls under "Islamic banking". From spending quite a bit of time reading up on it, many present day "Islamic banking offerings" aren't Islamic. They're simply ways to dance around the issue. What I'm saying isn't something controversial, I've talked to people, including a well known scholar who confirmed that to me. When there is a lot of money involved, things can go bad, and corporations with the most money and potential to profit can end up getting their way. Like seriously, a usurious bank like HSBC can offer a traditional mortgage product and an "Islamic financing" product side by side? Give me a break.

Note however, that this does not affect Islam one bit. True and honest scholars will always call out such actions, and they have been.

That being said, yes, at the core, true Islamic finance is about true and proper risk sharing, and reward sharing. Want to open a business? Get someone, or a group of people to fund you. They put in the money and you put in the risk. If it succeeds, you both share the rewards, if it doesn't, you lost the time and effort, and they lost the money. This is a very straight forward example.

Under Islamic law, lending money is only to be done as a purely charitable act, as the lender cannot benefit from the loan - either monetarily or in a non-tangential manner even. The general ruling is as follows: any loan that brings a benefit to the lender is Riba (can be loosely translated as usury). Riba involves more than the usury or interest that are done today by banks, it also includes things like buying gold on credit (Riba), or exchanging silver for silver of non equal amounts (also Riba).

Re: Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages

#338

Post by consumer451 »

floatingatoll wrote: post #321
consumer451 wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If big crypto-mining syndacates start using small scale nuclear... Any volunteers for living in the exclusion zones?

Seems fine to me. I already have nuclear irradiated genes, I'm sterile, and I prefer nature for company over human beings. (If you were sarcastically implying that no one would volunteer, you are mistaken. I encourage making your point more clearly and with less sarcasm, since a worthwhile discussion is possible if you do so.)

I would like to add that I do take your point on sarcasm. Thank you.

Re: Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages

#339

Post by floatingatoll »

consumer451 wrote: post #329
floatingatoll wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems fine to me. I already have nuclear irradiated genes, I'm sterile, and I prefer nature for company over human beings. (If you were sarcastically implying that no one would volunteer, you are mistaken. I encourage making your point more clearly and with less sarcasm, since a worthwhile discussion is possible if you do so.)

I was a bit sarcastic, but the effects on real estate values alone prevent many from wanting to live near a plant. The sarcasm came from the crypto part. The idea that swaths of US land would be devalued for the latest crypto pump and dump project makes me laugh and die inside. I mean Solana is actually pretty cool. But all other crypto projects of which I am aware do not add value to our species as a whole. So addin…

Totally with you on that “die inside” part for sure!

Re: Kazakhstan to restrict crypto miners amid power shortages

#340

Post by fastball »

depaya wrote: post #162
fastball wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this different from a factory that uses a lot of electricity to produce shoes that are then exported? I thought that was a good thing to have in your country, but apparently because this is crypto it is suddenly a bad thing?

A factory provides jobs to locals. A factory stimulates the economy by creating local economic activity (suppliers, logistics, construction, restaurants). A crypto operation might provide a small fraction of everything above while also producing nothing of tangible value to society.

Doesn't matter how "tangible" the value is if foreigners are paying for it.
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