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Android phones are sending significant amount of user data with no opt-out [pdf]

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Re: Android phones are sending significant amount of user data with no opt-out [pdf]

#331

Post by troyvit »

Forbo wrote: post #313
m4lvin wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google maps (not sure the replacement to that is). OsmAnd~ is great :-) https://f-droid.org/en/packages/net.osmand.plus

OsmAnd has been real hit or miss for me. It definitely has a lot more friction than Google Maps, and sometimes I'm not able to find a destination even with the full address. I want to use it, and I want to support the ecosystem, but damn if it doesn't make it difficult.

I agree. I'm trying to switch to OsmAnd from Here and even that is tough when it comes to finding an address on the map. You can find place names if they have been added to OpenStreetMap, which is mostly in big cities but that doesn't cover everything.

I uses a separate app called GPS Coordinates. I give it an address and it gives me lat/long which I paste into OSM. I'm sure there's gotta be a better way.

Re: Android phones are sending significant amount of user data with no opt-out [pdf]

#332

Post by xondono »

streamofdigits wrote: post #290
xondono wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is there no money to be made? Because we don't really know how much hardware costs anymore. Most hardware you buy is subsidized in one way or another through data collection, from phones to TVs. Building stuff is very capital intensive, and the world changes very rapidly. And most people don't really care about data collection because they don't understand the consequences, or they don't care at all (which I fi…

this is plausible (and very worrisome if really true). We are not talking about an aspirational consumer device, it is already the case that you are being cutoff from regular life / the economy without one. Incidentaly, I don't buy the "people don't care" argument. First of all, people do care. There is massive legislation in the EU (which represents half a billion people) towards data privacy. They are not freaks -…

> I don't buy the "people don't care" argument.

A lot of very informed people do really sincerely not care. A coworker of mine (IT professional) literally told me that the fact that his phone is constantly tracking him and that he could show me his whereabouts during the last week/month on google maps was a feature.

A lot of people really, truly don’t care. Is as baffling to me as it is to you.

Re: Android phones are sending significant amount of user data with no opt-out [pdf]

#333

Post by soylentnewsorg »

salusinarduis wrote: post #98
dgan wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do banking applications work? I mean as in "I buy X online. It requires me to login to my bank application and press 'confirm'. I perform this sequence, and online purchase is completed. "?

Some will, however I have heard some of these apps have janky hooks into Android's trust system which will break them on non-google distros. Personally I wouldn't suggest having banking apps on a phone. You can always use the web browser if you absolutely must access those accounts.

The number one reason to use a banking app on your phone is to deposit a paper check by taking a photo of it. I am not aware of a bank that lets you do that from a webpage.

Vanguard works on my completely google-free phone, although I had to change the OS language to English because w/ Android set to French their app would force the use of commas as the cents separator, then complain that commas are not a valid character. Another fun thing was it uses its own internal camera app, which would focus the preview, then completely ignore the focus setting and take a blurry photo of the check. Eventually I figured out the camera's default focus length and take the photo from that distance.

Re: Android phones are sending significant amount of user data with no opt-out [pdf]

#334

Post by soylentnewsorg »

GoblinSlayer wrote: post #302
Daniel_sk wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most in EU do this or will do - it’s part of EU bank regulation (PSD2). SMS isn’t considered safe anymore and debit/credit card payments are confirmed through banking apps (you get a push and confirm).

Wait, but smartphones are less safe than SMS. The attack surface of SMS is your surrounding, the attack surface of a smartphone is entire world, and virus infections happen much more regularly than sim copies.

That's not the issue though. I can log in to my cell account and see the content of every sms i send and receive. an app establishes an encrypted connection between your phone and the bank. sms is open to the public.

in addition, you don't need to copy a sim. you can copy a cell tower. which the authorities do all the time, without any warrants, and capture data en-masse. The fake cell tower fits in a backpack.

But it's not just the cops capturing your cell data. It's anyone, they've been doing it for over a decade, and it's cheap and easily accessible.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/vv7zn9/surprise-scans-sugges...

Re: Android phones are sending significant amount of user data with no opt-out [pdf]

#335

Post by markenqualitaet »

kaba0 wrote: post #266
summm wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paranoia is not the problem. The problem is general hostility and not being open to other viewpoints and ideas. Also I feel some kind of power hunger, which makes me feel really uncomfortable surrendering basically full control over my phone to these people.

From what I’ve seen, he gets summoned, and angry when things like “Calyx pays great attention to usability, while GrapheneOS gives more focus to security at the price of usability” gets mentioned, which is just false. Also, do note that it is indeed a dangerous business — false sense of security is the worst. And there are plenty of companies taking advantage of people wanting something “privacy-oriented”.

Nah, it's not about having strong options. I've been around nerds forever, that doesn't bother me. Yours might be the impression on recent HN, but if you look around he is all over the place, attacking people on various platforms, while promoting some conspiracy narrative; derailing, gaslighting and manipulation. Whatever is going on with that guy, something is definitely going on. He doesn't inspire trust, he probably needs therapy.

Re: Android phones are sending significant amount of user data with no opt-out [pdf]

#336

Post by markenqualitaet »

markenqualitaet wrote: post #335
kaba0 wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I’ve seen, he gets summoned, and angry when things like “Calyx pays great attention to usability, while GrapheneOS gives more focus to security at the price of usability” gets mentioned, which is just false. Also, do note that it is indeed a dangerous business — false sense of security is the worst. And there are plenty of companies taking advantage of people wanting something “privacy-oriented”.

Nah, it's not about having strong options. I've been around nerds forever, that doesn't bother me. Yours might be the impression on recent HN, but if you look around he is all over the place, attacking people on various platforms, while promoting some conspiracy narrative; derailing, gaslighting and manipulation. Whatever is going on with that guy, something is definitely going on. He doesn't inspire trust, he probab…

*opinions. Sorry can't edit.

Re: Android phones are sending significant amount of user data with no opt-out [pdf]

#337

Post by margalabargala »

hellisothers wrote: post #73
margalabargala wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any evidence the iOS operating system is better in any significant way? The article you linked focused on the apps available in the store, not the phone OS itself (which is what this article is about).

Apps draft off what the OS allows, iOS keeps adding features at the OS level (do not track, “app tracking health” metrics, advertising opt out, etc). At best Android grudgingly offers some of this after the fact, at worst does what this article offers.

What the OS allows for third-party apps and what the OS allows for the software of the manufacturer are completely different.

This article is about Samsung's OS sending data to Samsung, Google's OS sending data to Google, etc. All of this data is fairly above and beyond what would be available to an app on any of the mentioned operating systems. Just because iOS disallows apps from collecting certain classes of data, does not mean it does not collect that same data to send to Apple.

Re: Android phones are sending significant amount of user data with no opt-out [pdf]

#338

Post by snvzz »

cute_boi wrote: post #30
snvzz wrote: post #11

Companies like Google hold a lot of power over their users. It's all-or-nothing, and not being part of the Google ecosystem is extremely inconvenient as more and more services depend on it. Only legislation can give power back to the users. It shouldn't be necessary to put up with this level of surveillance by big corps in order to function in society.

you mean the legislation that forced banks to use google safety nets create hindrance in rooting the phone? I really find myself in hopeless position these days when Google can do anything freely because they have enough cash to lobby anything.

>the legislation that forced banks to use google safety nets create hindrance in rooting the phone?

You're saying some legislation made SafetyNet a legal requirement?!

You should try and elaborate on that.

Re: Android phones are sending significant amount of user data with no opt-out [pdf]

#339

Post by literallyaduck »

dlevine wrote: post #330

In the book Post Corona, Scott Galloway talks about red vs blue companies. Blue companies (e.g. Apple) charge a premium for their product and offer you some level of privacy, while red companies give you their product (the Android OS and Google Apps) for "free" and then collect lots of data on you (and use that to make money). Amazon is clearly going this route too with the ridiculous number of ads they have started…

Privacy is an illusion and premiumification of items is selling the sizzle not the steak.

"Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops."

Re: Android phones are sending significant amount of user data with no opt-out [pdf]

#340

Post by tjader »

slock83 wrote: post #206
dgan wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do banking applications work? I mean as in "I buy X online. It requires me to login to my bank application and press 'confirm'. I perform this sequence, and online purchase is completed. "?

I switched to /e/ rather recently, and it also just happen that I am in the process of switching banks, which means I currently have two banking apps on my phone. Both are rather strict on having a clean, non rooted, non modified phone. Currently, they both work without any caveats, but I had to install magisk, add them to magisk hide, and use the magisk renaming feature to have them work.

I also ironically had to install Magisk on my previously unrooted LineageOS phone in order to convince a bank app my phone is not rooted.
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