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Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

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Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#331

Post by watwut »

ghufran_syed wrote: post #220
watwut wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comparing Taliban to individual gun owners is next level absurd.

why? The taliban is not like a nation state army, more like a bunch or militias and tribes, each of which is a “bunch of local guys with guns”. As the war has progressed, I imagine they have got more professional, but I’m guessing around 80-90% of their strength are non ideological tribal militias who are very good at figuring out which way the wind is blowing and changing sides. That worked in the US favor in 2001-2…

They are not local guys with guns. They were not local guys with guns years before last war. The region fighters started, long time ago, by being trained by army (American) and were sponsored by multiple governments over years.

They are trained, funded disciplined. They are also local guys and local guys join them often. But then become part of something bigger.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#332

Post by foofoo4u »

chmod600 wrote: post #73

There's something admirable about the idea that a government would not take away all the guns. The idea that people should not have to give up all of their ability to fight. The idea that people should not be entirely dependent on police for their defense. And the idea that physically weaker people (often women) can defend themselves against the strong. Does this idea work? Surprisingly well. If you had to guess the…

There are graphics like [this](https://www.sfchronicle.com/projects/2021/california-newsom-...) that make it easy to tell how statistics weigh in various constituencies. Does anyone here know of a similar graph, but for homicides by firearms? If the majority of firearm violence is indeed caused by specific hotspots across the country, then I would love to see a graphic that shows where they are and how they weigh in proportion to the rest.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#333

Post by jabedude »

igetspam wrote: post #211
jabedude wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered that you don't hear about those defensive uses because your sources of news simply don't report them? 1. https://www.fox13memphis.com/top-stories/teen-tries-to-rape-... 2. https://www.foxnews.com/us/south-carolina-mother-of-3-shoots... 3. https://www.azfamily.com/news/us_world_news/police-woman-sho... 4. https://www.al.com/news/anniston-gadsden/2015/04/17-year-old... 5. https://myfox8.com/news/nc-…

It happens but even the six stores a month in American Rifleman aren't statistically significant, when compared to the number of "bad person kills less bad/good person" numbers or "accidental shooting death" numbers. > in 2020, there have been unintentional shootings by over 220 children. This has resulted in 92 deaths and 135 injuries Math is hard...

You should look up the numbers of yearly defensive gun uses in the United States. The CDC reports 60,000 to 2.5 million defensive gun uses each year

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#334

Post by zepto »

tootie wrote: post #260
chmod600 wrote: post #73

There's something admirable about the idea that a government would not take away all the guns. The idea that people should not have to give up all of their ability to fight. The idea that people should not be entirely dependent on police for their defense. And the idea that physically weaker people (often women) can defend themselves against the strong. Does this idea work? Surprisingly well. If you had to guess the…

I think the simplest counterpoint is Britain. The US Second Amendment is a direct descendant of the British Common Law right to bear arm. And Britain is arguably our national parent with a similar culture and history and a modern pluralistic culture. They effectively ended their right to private gun ownership in the 20th century to the point that it's now extremely difficult to procure one and there are very few guns…

One reason their homicide rate is less than half ours is that their clearance rate for murders is >90% vs around 60% in better parts of the US. This was a result of the British police adopting a standard and very effective methodology for investigating murders in the 70’s and 80’s.

There is a lot of criminological evidence that the deterrent effect of policing is proportional to the predictability of the crime being solved, rather than the harshness of the punishment.

If we want less murders, we need to put more effort into catching murderers. That is where the cause and effect relationship lies. It is also something that the British know how to do, and which we could learn from.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#335

Post by 8note »

KorematsuFredt wrote: post #239
sofixa wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the U.S. murder rate is not all that remarkable, really The US is at 4.96/100,000 for 2012. For reference, Angola is better at 4.85. Bulgaria and Romania, the poorest countries in the EU, are at 1.3. France is at 1.2. If by not remarkable you mean 3 as bad as other developed countries, sure. The numbers are only for intentional homicide, not even counting accidents and suicides which are also made worse by the…

PS: I am strong supporter of Gun rights and proud gun owner. I fully agree with anti-gun crowd that having vast majority of guns in hands of citizens (legally or illegally) leads to more deaths. USA's comparison with Angola is actually more serious than the numbers tell you because you need to realize that USA has far better medical response and doctors trained to handle gunshot wounds. So to truly compare Angola and…

In america, are you allowed to shoot a police officer who is violating your rights?

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#336

Post by NoImmatureAdHom »

sofixa wrote: post #96
chmod600 wrote: post #73

There's something admirable about the idea that a government would not take away all the guns. The idea that people should not have to give up all of their ability to fight. The idea that people should not be entirely dependent on police for their defense. And the idea that physically weaker people (often women) can defend themselves against the strong. Does this idea work? Surprisingly well. If you had to guess the…

> But the U.S. murder rate is not all that remarkable, really The US is at 4.96/100,000 for 2012. For reference, Angola is better at 4.85. Bulgaria and Romania, the poorest countries in the EU, are at 1.3. France is at 1.2. If by not remarkable you mean 3 as bad as other developed countries, sure. The numbers are only for intentional homicide, not even counting accidents and suicides which are also made worse by the…

I think it quite likely Angola's reporting is broken. Coming up with accurate numbers even for a developed country is challenging.

>Furthermore, i find US fascination with their theoretical ability to fight their government with small arms adorable and misguided.

Afghanistan, a fractious nation mostly comprised of illiterate peasants, has been able to fight off not one but two superpowers using mostly small arms.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#337

Post by zepto »

jfengel wrote: post #232
chmod600 wrote: post #73

There's something admirable about the idea that a government would not take away all the guns. The idea that people should not have to give up all of their ability to fight. The idea that people should not be entirely dependent on police for their defense. And the idea that physically weaker people (often women) can defend themselves against the strong. Does this idea work? Surprisingly well. If you had to guess the…

Murders aren't the only issue, though. Just the possibility of a gun being present changes a lot of interactions in the US. Every police encounter has to assume you have a gun. A lot of innocent deaths at the hands of police are treated as "I thought he had a gun", which makes everybody scared of the police -- especially minorities. School children go through metal detectors every single day, never turning up any gun…

> but the ability of guns to appear at any instant keeps the entire country on edge, all the time.

This is a fantasy. I’ve never been in a situation I’m the US where I thought a gun could appear at any time, and I don’t even live in a particularly great neighborhood.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#338

Post by tablespoon »

brodouevencode wrote: post #252
monoideism wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> their theoretical ability to fight their government with small arms adorable and misguided Taliban? Vietcong?

The whole argument that small arms are of no comparison to tanks and nuclear weapons are made by people who have no experience with firearms, fire fight and perimeter and assault tactics, or any type of military strategy. To even get to this point you would have to assume that the US would devolve into a civil war, in which you can also safely assume that many in the US military would be defectors (leaving a lot of e…

> To even get to this point you would have to assume that the US would devolve into a civil war, in which you can also safely assume that many in the US military would be defectors (leaving a lot of empty tanks and airplanes, if not turned to the "other" side).

This is totally speculation on my part, but it could be important to have a armed civilian resistance to create a "permission structure" for military defection. My understanding is that military strongly inculcates loyalty and obedience to the organization. Those seem like they'd be hard feelings to overcome, especially in isolation when the defection would be solitary and likely pointless. I'd think that in a lot of cases people would just muddle along for lack of options. Having a group to join and take your equipment to seems like it would make the decision much easier.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#339

Post by NoImmatureAdHom »

philwelch wrote: post #268
sofixa wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the U.S. murder rate is not all that remarkable, really The US is at 4.96/100,000 for 2012. For reference, Angola is better at 4.85. Bulgaria and Romania, the poorest countries in the EU, are at 1.3. France is at 1.2. If by not remarkable you mean 3 as bad as other developed countries, sure. The numbers are only for intentional homicide, not even counting accidents and suicides which are also made worse by the…

The US is not that bad compared to other New World countries. From your link we see Brazil at 27, Mexico at 29, Argentina at 5, Uruguay at 12, Greenland at 5, Panama at 9, and Costa Rica at 11. Canada is the biggest outlier, but the US still has less homicide than even relatively nice New World countries. If you’re going to tout France’s low homicide rate of 1.2, I’d invite you to observe that Japan’s homicide rate i…

>The US is not that bad compared to other New World countries.

Yeah, I'd add that France doesn't have a long, porous border with the developing world. Nor nearly as much heterogeneity in its population.

Re: Women are nearly half of new gun buyers, study finds

#340

Post by Maarten88 »

KorematsuFredt wrote: post #239
sofixa wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But the U.S. murder rate is not all that remarkable, really The US is at 4.96/100,000 for 2012. For reference, Angola is better at 4.85. Bulgaria and Romania, the poorest countries in the EU, are at 1.3. France is at 1.2. If by not remarkable you mean 3 as bad as other developed countries, sure. The numbers are only for intentional homicide, not even counting accidents and suicides which are also made worse by the…

PS: I am strong supporter of Gun rights and proud gun owner. I fully agree with anti-gun crowd that having vast majority of guns in hands of citizens (legally or illegally) leads to more deaths. USA's comparison with Angola is actually more serious than the numbers tell you because you need to realize that USA has far better medical response and doctors trained to handle gunshot wounds. So to truly compare Angola and…

> In my experience USA lot less corrupt than most other countries. Lobbying overall is a net good thing for a democratic society.

You rightly mention lobbying and corruption together. But somehow you miss that they are on the same continuum. From my EU perspective lobbying in the US is corruption, as the lobbying comes with money and paid-for political promotion.

The situation around guns itself is a clear example: as I understand it, a majority of US people is in favor of more limitations to gun rights (banning automatic weapons, screening psychiatric patients and criminals) but politicians are only expanding gun rights (open carry etc).

If democracy would work as intended then "common sense" limitations would have been introduced long ago.

Note that I am not talking about corruption in the criminal sense: US politics and supreme court have fully legalized and embraced it, conflating it with lobbying.

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