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A generation of American men give up on college

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Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#331

Post by Ensorceled »

10x-dev wrote: post #203
throwtheworld wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A narrative that (white) men are uniformly privileged and life is just easy for them. This is very perspective dependent. I’m a black college student now and every conversation with friends back home includes some mention of dropping out because it’s not for us as well. When you see people with equivalent resumes already coasting by in the job market because they could get their last names and LinkedIn photos past…

This doesn't match up with my experience as an interviewer at several FAANGs. HR typically wants their diversity numbers up badly so if you're gay, a woman, and/or black they are already incredibly inclined to hire you, as long as you pass the interviews. It's not a walk in the park, but you have this going for you and it's a big advantage imo.

> HR typically wants their diversity numbers up badly

This kind of implies that they don't actually hire diversely or the issue wouldn't be so dire ...

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#332

Post by listless »

throwtheworld wrote: post #99
baron816 wrote: post #63

A lot of this is driven by narratives—A narrative that college isn’t worth it anymore. A narrative that (white) men are uniformly privileged and life is just easy for them. And a narrative that those men aren’t wanted by society any more. I’m not convinced that all those men need to go to college, but they clearly need something. They need to feel like they’re part of society. Nothing good can come of an entire gener…

> A narrative that (white) men are uniformly privileged and life is just easy for them. This is very perspective dependent. I’m a black college student now and every conversation with friends back home includes some mention of dropping out because it’s not for us as well. When you see people with equivalent resumes already coasting by in the job market because they could get their last names and LinkedIn photos past…

> “We know we’re not what companies are looking for”

Why do you say that? Because I can tell you as an employee of a FAANG company that you are exactly what these companies are looking for. They’ve got serious diversity issues - especially among Black men (not assuming a gender here just facts) - and they are desperate to balance themselves out.

I mean that as an encouraging statement. You ARE who is being looked for. Be confident in that and use it to your advantage.

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#333

Post by nabla9 »

_Nat_ wrote: post #89

That's an interesting figure they've got! Observations (based on the figure alone): 1. White-Males had the lowest college-enrollment-rates across all categories. They got the lowest in the two lowest income-brackets; basically a three-way tie in the next income-bracket; and just a little higher than Hispanic-Males in the highest income-bracket. 2. Asians had the highest enrollment-rates across all income-brackets. 3.…

What is missing is dividing all that by field of study. When white males give up college, what exactly do they give up?

https://scholar.harvard.edu/goldin/publications/homecoming-a...

>Once barriers to female careers were lowered and their access to higher education was expanded, two key factors may have played a role in the female college advantage: relatively greater economic benefits of college for females and relatively higher effort costs of college going and prepara- tion for males. (girls exceeded boys in secondary school performance and attainment)

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#334

Post by happythen »

exporectomy wrote: post #306
happythen wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> foot through the door Yea, but we got no problem getting to that door. Minorities might get pulled over and get a knee on the neck. Women might get assaulted on their way. Being a white dude, I'll get a taxi there, no problem. So if I have to try harder to get the position, pretty understandable, since I got the head start. Not saying life is easy for anyone, saying it's so much easier being a white dude with a nic…

> a knee on the neck. Women might get assaulted You've been reading too much news. That doesn't happen to normal people in real life. Blacks have a huge disadvantage of poor upbringing by their own family and community and women have a huge "disadvantage" of not wanting to be a computer programmer.

No, I just get outdoors and live with real people, and see it myself. I've been pulled over in a car with two other dudes, and watched the darkest skin guy get the crap kicked out of him because they thought he is a gangster, while we had to sit on a curb and watch. Where I went to school, counselors tried to get me to take AP classes, which I didn't want, while my friends with darker skin, and better grades, had to go on the wait list. I lived in an area where 13 year old pregnancies were regular. Guys raping chicks while they are passed out drunk in high school was regular. Jumping the gay kids were regular. I got to watch it, empathize with my friends, but I never had to bear the burden. My burden was folks like you, denying there are any problems because you are so safe, can't fathom life being different, even when it's across the street.

> normal people

Point exactly, when you say normal, you are thinking of white dude America. And yes, this does not happen to them.

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#335

Post by Levitz »

lyaa wrote: post #296
icare_1er wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This famous hoax has been debunked many times. For a start, the countries where women pursue IT and science the most, are the most patriarchists (Turkey, Iran, Algeria, Middle-east, etc...). The more relaxed are gender-roles, the more women choose to study arts and litterature, or "gender studies", the same who then complain that there are not enough women building trains. Second, as many in the west have seen here,…

As someone who has experience with the educational systems of the middle east, I find it amusing how you are misinterpreting the situation. It's extremely hard for women in these countries to get good careers in any field other than teaching or medicine especially since they are often forced to marry and leave the work force (they can't work without their husbands' permission and they almost always handle all child c…

So let me get this straight.

Your reasoning is that in brutally sexist societies women choose to study completely male-dominated fields because they don't have to make a living after it, whereas in the most egalitarian societies in the entire world sexism pushes them towards traditionally female fields to escape discrimination?

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#336

Post by dempseye »

the-dude wrote: post #221
dkarp wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this with everything. You have to become an expert at everything if you want it done right. Maybe it's because the truly expert help is generally too expensive. Examples: - Taxes/Pensions - if you just rely on your accountant then they'll do the bare minimum and you'll miss out - Energy company - we're rolling out smart gas/elec meters in the UK. There is an old type (smets1) and a new type (smets2). You don't…

I agree with sentiment, and I discovered early on in my adult life : Iedereen doet maar wat ( Dutch ) Loosely translated : Everybody just fucks around , wether it is car mechanics, doctors or laywers. Would love to hear a more canonical term for the phenomenon. edit: And if it is absolutely critical it is done right? Do it yourself.

Is this a common expression in Dutch or something you made up yourself?

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#337

Post by pelasaco »

baron816 wrote: post #63

A lot of this is driven by narratives—A narrative that college isn’t worth it anymore. A narrative that (white) men are uniformly privileged and life is just easy for them. And a narrative that those men aren’t wanted by society any more. I’m not convinced that all those men need to go to college, but they clearly need something. They need to feel like they’re part of society. Nothing good can come of an entire gener…

I think that's exactly how racism works right? You segregate people by how they look like and you make them believe that because how they look like and their origins they are less important then the others. Kind of funny how we humans think: "let's correct a mistake repeating it over and over again".

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#338

Post by arthur_sav »

atoav wrote: post #112
smitty1e wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My brother in law is an electrician. I had enough EE in college to change a light switch without burning the house down. However, that book-learnin' fell apart when confronted with troubleshooting a strangely wired room, and I got very polite while asking him over to bail me out. These fellows eschewing the ivory tower, where being of European extraction and bearing a Y-chromosome on the college campus is an indictme…

I am a certified EE and have a MA of fine Arts (film). Living in Europe where I had to pay 350 Euros per semester (which included a public transport ticket for the whole province), I didn't have to make a choice between the two. I did both because I was interested in both. After university I was well equiped to do freelancer work in my field and earned well. I don't think this "you have to be hard or else you won't s…

Agreed, there should be a threshold where people can get the minimum to live a normal life. Basic healthcare, a job with liveable wage, easy access to education etc...

However, there should be a playground for innovation as well.

Europe makes it so damn hard to innovate because of it's many laws. Ambitious people inevitably move to the US.

Re: A generation of American men give up on college

#340

Post by randomdata »

OJFord wrote: post #194
ceilingcorner wrote: post #113

COVID has accelerated this big time. Why spend $5,000 a semester to watch a Zoom lecture from an average professor when you can open YouTube in a new tab and see a world-class professor share the same information for free? It makes no rational sense. The moment that a serious, legitimate credential system appears, every average university will disappear overnight. We'll be left with an oligarch class that attends the…

Because you don't pay for instruction, you pay for examination and certification.

While you are right, the question still stands. There is no value in the latter two. The only value is in the first, and that's not what you're paying for, so why pay at all?
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