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Police have been quitting in droves in the last year

nytimes.com

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Re: Police have been quitting in droves in the last year

#331

Post by mgarfias »

nradov wrote: post #19
_fat_santa wrote: post #3

Policing has to be one of the hardest jobs in our modern society, I honestly couldn't event imagine the stress. Imagine picking up a JIRA ticket at work and not knowing if that ticket is going to a run of the mill bug fix or something that can kill you. That's just out of the realm of possibility for an SWE but for a cop it can be any one of the calls they take on a daily basis. I've always had respect for cops becau…

Law enforcement can be dangerous but it's only #22 in occupational death rates. Lumberjacks and roofers are far more likely to get killed. https://www.ishn.com/articles/112748-top-25-most-dangerous-j...

Tell that to my wife’s old deputy (she was a dispatcher), that took a 7.62 round from an AK in the ass. Or his buddy that was medically retired after that from fucking is his back getting the shot-in-ass guy out of the fire fight.

Re: Police have been quitting in droves in the last year

#332

Post by mgarfias »

mgarfias wrote: post #331
nradov wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Law enforcement can be dangerous but it's only #22 in occupational death rates. Lumberjacks and roofers are far more likely to get killed. https://www.ishn.com/articles/112748-top-25-most-dangerous-j...

Tell that to my wife’s old deputy (she was a dispatcher), that took a 7.62 round from an AK in the ass. Or his buddy that was medically retired after that from fucking is his back getting the shot-in-ass guy out of the fire fight.

Or the corrections deputy my friend worked with that was sexually assaulted by escaped two prisoners in a stairwell.

Re: Police have been quitting in droves in the last year

#333

Post by dang »

bena wrote: post #322
dang wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't take HN threads further into cheap ideological flamewar. It's predictable, boring, and nasty, regardless of what you're flaming for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

The only way what I said is indicative of a "cheap, ideological flamewar" is if what I said wasn't true. And the person who "disagreed" with me wound up saying he did agree with me. That the police do not want to lose budget. But they do want to do less. He essentially opposed that I used the pronoun "they" to refer to "the police".

This argument is like mailing a letter bomb (not that anyone does that anymore) and then protesting that what you wrote in your letter was true. Obviously one can take a true statement (I'm not saying yours were true or not true) and wrap it up in a damaging flamewar package.

Not only that, but if your claims are true, then you discredit not only yourself and your views by posting this way, but also the truth itself, which actually does harm. One who knows truths that others aren't aware of is under a higher responsibility than that. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...

But whether you care about that or not, please follow HN's rules if you want to keep posting here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Police have been quitting in droves in the last year

#334

Post by merpnderp »

ceejayoz wrote: post #176
merpnderp wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think they aren't listening? The problem is they're just further down into the nuts and bolts of the problem than the "defund the police" folks ever get, so it only looks like they aren't listening when they ignore infeasible or impractical ideas.

> What makes you think they aren't listening? * gestures in the general direction of... everything *

Lol, every cop union I've seen is asking for more social workers. But cities don't want to add social workers, they want to replace cops with social workers, which is nuts. If social workers need police escorts for most calls, what good does it do to replace cops with them?

Face it, "defund the police" was a catchy but ultimately stupid phrase, but there's no backing out now with out looking like thoughtless hysterics that caused a massive spike in crime and murders, leading to thousands of excess deaths.

Re: Police have been quitting in droves in the last year

#335

Post by bena »

dang wrote: post #333
bena wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way what I said is indicative of a "cheap, ideological flamewar" is if what I said wasn't true. And the person who "disagreed" with me wound up saying he did agree with me. That the police do not want to lose budget. But they do want to do less. He essentially opposed that I used the pronoun "they" to refer to "the police".

This argument is like mailing a letter bomb (not that anyone does that anymore) and then protesting that what you wrote in your letter was true. Obviously one can take a true statement (I'm not saying yours were true or not true) and wrap it up in a damaging flamewar package. Not only that, but if your claims are true, then you discredit not only yourself and your views by posting this way, but also the truth itself,…

But I disagree with your analogy about the letter bomb. Even the guy I was talking with said he enjoyed the discussion. I'm just not getting it here. Obviously.

We had an exchange, we came to an understanding of sorts. No feelings were injured (that I can tell).

Re: Police have been quitting in droves in the last year

#336

Post by johnhenry »

myfavoritedog wrote: post #250
johnhenry wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's not ignore the fact that minorities neighborhoods have historically faced higher levels of scrutiny from police. It's not just that offenders are from minority groups... Consider that police are going out into minority groups looking for offenders.

I saw a stat a while back that showed that any higher levels of policing of minority communities was directly attributable to higher levels of disturbance reports from within the communities themselves. So police aren’t just looking for offenders in minority communities. They’re going where the communities are asking them to be.

This article explains the situation better: https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/race/reports/2016/09...

There's also evidence to show that all else held equal, police respond with more force when dealing with minorities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_use_of_deadly_force_in_....

Do you have a source for the stat that you mentioned.

Re: Police have been quitting in droves in the last year

#337

Post by zepto »

brutusborn wrote: post #244
zepto wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn’t mean a bad slogan like Defund the police isn’t just divisive, ill-advised, and harmful.

Of course it doesn't. But it does show how hard it is to come up with slogans. Can you think of a 'synonym' that isn't divisive, ill advised or harmful in any way? That's a high bar.

Maybe slogans are just a damaging way to do politics?

Re: Police have been quitting in droves in the last year

#338

Post by dang »

bena wrote: post #335
dang wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument is like mailing a letter bomb (not that anyone does that anymore) and then protesting that what you wrote in your letter was true. Obviously one can take a true statement (I'm not saying yours were true or not true) and wrap it up in a damaging flamewar package. Not only that, but if your claims are true, then you discredit not only yourself and your views by posting this way, but also the truth itself,…

But I disagree with your analogy about the letter bomb. Even the guy I was talking with said he enjoyed the discussion. I'm just not getting it here. Obviously. We had an exchange, we came to an understanding of sorts. No feelings were injured (that I can tell).

Yes I hear you - the difference is that we have to moderate for the general case. It's a bit like poker. You can win with an inside straight, but not in the long run.

Re: Police have been quitting in droves in the last year

#339

Post by whydoibother »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #309
only_as_i_fall wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that an effective police force probably needs to see their job as a profession and a career and that investment into officers is important, but also I think cops are already well paid. Cops in my area cross six figures within about 5 years of joining (this is informed by police officers I know but probably far from uniform) and they get some of the best pension benefits available and have to work far less tim…

“ The paper looked at the life expectancy for 2,800 male police officers in Buffalo, N.Y., who spent at least five years on the force between 1950 and 2005. It compared the officers’ life expectancy with that of the overall white male population of the United States. The researchers excluded women and minority officers because they accounted for a small percentage of the potential pool, which would have made it hard…

That paper doesn't show a causal link. Just that a certain subgroup within a narrow region happened to die earlier. Any number of factors could cause that, independent of profession.

Re: Police have been quitting in droves in the last year

#340

Post by 9wzYQbTYsAIc »

ShroudedNight wrote: post #325
9wzYQbTYsAIc wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See the United States “Occupational Injury and Illness Classification Manual” at https://www.bls.gov/iif/oshwc/oiicm.pdf

I've tried navigating that document, it's not clear to me where your ordering came from. FWIW 'penultimate' means second from last, suggesting that there is an 'ultimate' risk even more feared than death. I believe that's what GP was asking about.

Ah, sorry for not expounding further. I did understand what the GP was conveying, but I’m just saying:

It is common to consider some situations as being worse than death.

I suspect that most reasonable readers of that classification manual would be able to identify a selection of situations that could lead to being considered worse than death.

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