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What it's like to be cancelled

noahbradley.com

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Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#331

Post by koheripbal »

etcet wrote: post #248
surround wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every single internet apology I've seen has been met with "this is such a bad apology / isn't a real apology." I'd love to see an example of an internet apology where people don't criticize the apology itself (if one exists).

The Dan Harmon apology is very good and, as far as I understand (I'm not on Twitter), was generally well received: https://time.com/5100019/dan-harmon-megan-ganz-sexual-harass...

That was a good read. ...but if anything it sort of highlights the scope of the problem.

Here is a man who could not handle working with a woman, and took it out on her. Shitty behavior, for sure.

This is an order of magnitude better than being accused of being serial rapist.

....but if you think about it. Ted Harmon got away with this because he is so so so highly respected in the field. AND EVEN HE, was effectively forced to issue a public apology.

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#332

Post by rkk3 »

tptacek wrote: post #306
rkk3 wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do you see that in the original apology? https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2020/06/noah-bradley-admi...

Follow the links from his Wikipedia page and you can see Twitter threads where he responded directly to allegations like this with links to the apology.

Not very helpful, even with digging I don't see what you are talking about. Please post the link.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah_Bradley

Live Twitter reference Link

https://twitter.com/Blackdeerly/status/1274715678444945412

Dead Twitter reference Links

https://twitter.com/noahbradley/status/1274670378296774658

https://twitter.com/abigbat/status/1293860934600003585

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#333

Post by gamblor956 »

noahbradley wrote: post #215
defaultname wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original complaint claimed that he was a groper. That's sexual harassment. It's illegal. It's incredibly toxic and creepy , and people who do it are out of touch cretins who make everything worse. Citing that no one officially lodged a criminal complaint isn't a counterpoint. Most sexual assault isn't pursued. Serial creeps are plying their trade right now. But yeah, if he's associated with a brand and he's going…

I never groped anyone.

I know of at least 5 women who stopped attending these events because of you, and their (near-)contemporaneous accounts of your behavior does not match your current recollections of your past behavior.

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#334

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

caddemon wrote: post #319
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wasn’t one of the MIT students seeking to strip Stallman of his positions, claiming that she had only heard of him acting inappropriately (as she was too young to ever interact with him herself), yet when challenged on the matter, refused to provide any specifics?

Yes, IIRC the Medium post that made the situation go viral beyond MIT was written by a student that just compiled other peoples' stories about Stallman, not based on any of her own experiences. Personally I can't imagine initiating calls for someone's head without first hand knowledge, but I don't think she had any hidden incentive to make the post. My guess is she had her own negative experiences with someone else i…

Perhaps you are being too charitable in assuming that the student was calling for Stallman’s head out of past trauma. It could be that the calling for his head was a performative act for her own benefit, boosting her in the eyes of others.

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#335

Post by ceilingcorner »

tptacek wrote: post #330
ceilingcorner wrote: post #328

American culture has a really bizarre mix of two things, which you can see playing out here. 1. Oversexualizing everything. Imagery, video, Tinder, clothing styles, everything is in your face sex all the time. 2. Remnants of a Puritan approach to sex. Absolutely nothing is okay unless explicit consent is given repeatedly. Even hugs are considered sexual harassment if not explicitly approved. I’m not casting judgment…

Social and commercial sanctions for people who "pressure" women into sex at industry events isn't "puritanism".

I’m not even sure what “pressure women into sex” is supposed to mean. Clearly some people categorize flirting as this, which is crazy to me.

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#336

Post by tptacek »

legitster wrote: post #65

Honestly, the biggest mistake people make is issuing public apologies. So far, we have very few examples of them actually working. On the contrary, any amount of admission seems to show weakness. The "controversy" around Lin-Manuel Miranda seems to have come nearly entirely from his apology to a very small group of disappointed fans. There are even more examples of very publicly terrible people who have skirted worse…

You put scare quotes around "controversy" because we all understand that there's no real controversy to it. Miranda remains as culturally powerful as he's ever been. Sometimes people apologize because they think it's the right thing to do, without expecting their apologies to manipulate detractors into withdrawing claims. And, as we can see from this post, sometimes people have the opposite expectation.

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#337

Post by lelanthran »

Seattle3503 wrote: post #321

It's disappointing how many people say "apologies don't work". The purpose of an apology isn't to salvage your reputation, it is to help victims move forward.

> It's disappointing how many people say "apologies don't work". The purpose of an apology isn't to salvage your reputation, it is to help victims move forward.

Well, if the "victims" don't move on after the apology, then the apology didn't work, did it? :-)

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#338

Post by tptacek »

ceilingcorner wrote: post #335
tptacek wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social and commercial sanctions for people who "pressure" women into sex at industry events isn't "puritanism".

I’m not even sure what “pressure women into sex” is supposed to mean. Clearly some people categorize flirting as this, which is crazy to me.

It was his word choice, not mine. He's been accused of bright-line violations that his apology doesn't mention, for whatever that's worth. For instance: attempting to have sex with someone too intoxicated to give consent isn't merely "pressure"; it's rape.

(I only know what everyone else who just found out about this drama today knows, from looking at Twitter threads and Wikipedia.)

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#339

Post by [deleted] »

tw04 wrote: post #247
throwaway111999 wrote: post #225

I'm terrified of interacting with female coworkers. I don't have a "-ist" bone in my body. When I review code, I only see the code and not the person that wrote it. When I pick a team, I look at engineering ability and nothing else. I abhor discriminatory behavior and would be the first to put my career on the line to defend someone getting discriminated against. And of course I keep anything sexual FAR FAR FAAAR out…

Or you know, just don't be a creep and treat women like human beings and you'll be fine? If you're giving negative feedback because they did something wrong/substandard work, you document it and move on. If there are questions later, you refer back. I've literally never had this be a problem. I'm not sure why talking about your personal life would be grounds for issues unless you decided to talk about your bedroom, p…

[deleted]

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#340

Post by JackFr »

goda90 wrote: post #275
JackFr wrote: post #258

I’m not unsympathetic with the author, but I have to admit I’m not completely sympathetic either. > I woke up to several people tagging me in a twitter thread for my sleezy behavior at some art events many years ago. I wasn’t that person any more and I wanted to apologize for being an asshole in the past. I had apologized privately for everything, but I hoped it might show my sincerity and commitment to being better…

> But apologizing doesn’t absolve you of bad behavior. And if someone doesn’t accept your apology (possibly believing it’s insincere) and brings up your “sleezy behavior at some art events many years ago”, calling them out and saying I’m not that guy anymore is not really owning his behavior. What would absolve him of that behavior? Should we live in a society where every single mistake follows you forever, no matter…

No I don't think every single mistake should follow you forever. And it's not fair to judge a person by their worst action.

But a sincere apology is humble and expects nothing in return. There is nothing in this piece to indicate that his apologies stemmed from anything other than damage control for his social and professional standing.

From the article:

> Because of my sometimes-controversial online image (mostly due to my let’s-be-arrogant-to-hide-my-insecurity bravado of my younger years that got me into this mess in the first place)

Please.

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