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Heart inflammation cases in young men higher than expected after mRNA vaccines

reuters.com

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Re: Heart inflammation cases in young men higher than expected after mRNA vaccines

#331

Post by incrudible »

weaksauce wrote: post #271
trhway wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> everyone you come into contact with to take that same risk how come so if those "everyone" got vaccinated? I mean all the risk groups who has clearly higher risk from covid than vaccine should definitely go for vaccine. The rest - personal choice of risk. And as a healthy 49 years old, i'm taking my chance with covid and have no plans for vaccination (i was always laughing at anti-vaxxers, yet seeing all misinforma…

> And as a healthy 49 years old, i'm taking my chance with covid and have no plans for vaccination so you would rather be at between a 1 in 500 and a 1 in 250 risk of dying in your age group + a much higher risk than that of some long covid symptoms that are debilitating/unknown if they will ever get better vs. a 1 in a 1,000,000 chance you get something that might be bad but is likely survivable... I don't understan…

I don't necessarily disagree that the known risks outweigh the known benefits for that age group, but your numbers are way off.

You also have to consider that the absolute risk (the risk of catching Sars-Cov2 multiplied by the risk of COVID) is far lower with current prevalence.

In the end, you arrive at a low known risk either way. It then depends on how you weigh the unknown risks. There's a strong incentive to downplay risks of vaccination "for the public good" while simultaneously exaggerating the risk of infection. By posting these inflated/deflated numbers, you're playing your part, knowingly or not.

Re: Heart inflammation cases in young men higher than expected after mRNA vaccines

#332

Post by tome »

mike_hearn wrote: post #328
ancientorange wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As a healthy 30 year old I would prefer to take my risk with covid than take these vaccines. As an exhausted 34 year old who spent the last year field-monitoring vaccine trials, I would love to see the sources that informed your position.

Alright. As an exhausted 37 year old, I'm going to stick my neck out and explain why I've chosen to put myself at the back of the queue for vaccines this time around. I'm sure the authorities will find some way to force me to take it at some point, but refusing these vaccines is a rational position. You may not agree with it, but it's based on rationality and logic. So here are my reasons. Firstly, I don't believe CO…

HIT = Heparin-induced thrombocytopenia?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heparin-induced_thrombocytopen...

Re: Heart inflammation cases in young men higher than expected after mRNA vaccines

#333

Post by mike_hearn »

tome wrote: post #332
mike_hearn wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alright. As an exhausted 37 year old, I'm going to stick my neck out and explain why I've chosen to put myself at the back of the queue for vaccines this time around. I'm sure the authorities will find some way to force me to take it at some point, but refusing these vaccines is a rational position. You may not agree with it, but it's based on rationality and logic. So here are my reasons. Firstly, I don't believe CO…

HIT = Heparin-induced thrombocytopenia? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heparin-induced_thrombocytopen...

Herd immunity threshold.

https://www.medpagetoday.com/opinion/vinay-prasad/90445

Late last week, Fauci told the New York Times that new science had changed his thinking on the herd immunity threshold -- but he also admitted that his statements were influenced in part by "his gut feeling that the country is finally ready to hear what he really thinks."

"When polls said only about half of all Americans would take a vaccine, I was saying herd immunity would take 70 to 75 percent," Fauci said. "Then, when newer surveys said 60 percent or more would take it, I thought, 'I can nudge this up a bit,' so I went to 80, 85."

This example is important because Fauci is admitting here that he lied to the public about a value that had a supposedly scientific basis, in order to encourage people to take vaccines out of a sense of collective responsibility.

Re: Heart inflammation cases in young men higher than expected after mRNA vaccines

#334

Post by shmel »

throwaway5752 wrote: post #227
shmel wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know this? mRNA vaccines are literally so new we don't know what will be in 2 years from now. They were never used in humans. In comparison SARS survivors from 2003 still have immunity (I believe the same is with MERS).

That isn't quite true. Since sars-covid-2 is new, it follows of course the specific vaccine is new. The RNA/mRNA approach goes back 30 years to HIV research, and the current vaccine has many years of research (directly from SARS-1 and MERS, and possible mitigations). A lot is known about them, regardless of widespread use. We will all undoubtedly learn more. I'm not replying directly to you, but the duration of the i…

Could you please name any other mRNA vaccine that was authorized for use in humans by FDA? I am not aware of any.

I agree that the vaccine is probably safer. However, propaganda that covid19 infection doesn't give you as good immune memory as the vaccine is outright false and should be considered as vaccine misinformation on major platforms.

Re: Heart inflammation cases in young men higher than expected after mRNA vaccines

#335

Post by mike_hearn »

eganist wrote: post #273
0-_-0 wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I belive this might show (still trying to figure this out) is how the lipid nanoparticles from the vaccine are distributed in the body. Page 7 shows particularly high concentration in the ovaries for example. I think the idea of the vaccine should be that the intramuscular injection stays in the muscle and the spike proteins don't get into your blood, but this was never actually directly verified. What this stud…

Given the sheer volume of doses delivered and the capability to detect clotting risks (az, JJ), the fact that clotting risk did not go up with biontech and moderna might throw a wrench into that hunch. But even then, not seeing an indication of risk within two orders of magnitude of covid itself.

the fact that clotting risk did not go up with biontech and moderna might throw a wrench into that hunch.

There's no agreement on what's really happening. For example, clotting risk from the mRNA vaccines is supposedly the same as for the AstraZeneca vaccines, but governments across Europe already suspended the AZ vaccine due to clotting risks (supposedly). Therefore by implication, they would also consider the mRNA vaccines dangerous if their standards were consistent. Either the standards aren't consistent and the AZ blocks were political, or the claims that mRNA vaccines have similar clotting risks to AZ are wrong, but given the contradictory nature of many of the claims surrounding this topic - and given that you admitted you only just discovered some of the scientific discussion of the effects of mRNA vaccines - it may be worth dialing down your confidence slightly.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/blood-clots-as-prevalent-w...

Re: Heart inflammation cases in young men higher than expected after mRNA vaccines

#336

Post by mpfundstein »

mike_hearn wrote: post #328
ancientorange wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As a healthy 30 year old I would prefer to take my risk with covid than take these vaccines. As an exhausted 34 year old who spent the last year field-monitoring vaccine trials, I would love to see the sources that informed your position.

Alright. As an exhausted 37 year old, I'm going to stick my neck out and explain why I've chosen to put myself at the back of the queue for vaccines this time around. I'm sure the authorities will find some way to force me to take it at some point, but refusing these vaccines is a rational position. You may not agree with it, but it's based on rationality and logic. So here are my reasons. Firstly, I don't believe CO…

thank you so much for this writeup

Re: Heart inflammation cases in young men higher than expected after mRNA vaccines

#337

Post by taxicabjesus »

mike_hearn wrote: post #328
ancientorange wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>As a healthy 30 year old I would prefer to take my risk with covid than take these vaccines. As an exhausted 34 year old who spent the last year field-monitoring vaccine trials, I would love to see the sources that informed your position.

Alright. As an exhausted 37 year old, I'm going to stick my neck out and explain why I've chosen to put myself at the back of the queue for vaccines this time around. I'm sure the authorities will find some way to force me to take it at some point, but refusing these vaccines is a rational position. You may not agree with it, but it's based on rationality and logic. So here are my reasons. Firstly, I don't believe CO…

I appreciate your comment.

> I'm going to stick my neck out and explain why I've chosen to put myself at the back of the queue for vaccines this time around.

I'm not getting vaccinated because I think I had "Early Covid", which I define as a case of SARS-CoV-2 before there was a test to diagnose it. Someone on Twitter said the timeline promoted by the media is impossible [2]; Michael Burry (MD in The Big Short [4]) pointed out that December 2019 blood samples with SARS-Cov-2 showed "#containment was never possible" [3].

> For people in our age range this is especially important because the risk of suffering badly from COVID is negligible.

Bad medicine dramatically increases the possibility of dying from a SARS-CoV-2 infection, no matter your age.

Good medicine for bad cases of SARS-CoV-2 is the anti-serotonin drug Cyproheptadine [0], which are useful for pulling people out of their death spirals.

More vulnerable people wouldn't be put into their death spirals if doctors remembered that oxygen in excess is toxic, but we have to work with the doctors we have. "is this pure (toxic) oxygen, or the oxygen with the antidote?" should be asked by all patients who are given oxygen to worsen their body's ability to use oxygen [1].

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27365696 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26964750

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22993262

[2] "The #Corona crisis began with a panopticon of absurd events, improbable coincidences and outright lies. Time for a review of the impossibilities." - https://twitter.com/theotherphilipp/status/13649545484277022... and a reply, "The timelines from first realization of the virus to isolation/sequencing to diagnostic test kit are impossible. The test kits were prepared for an expected event." - https://twitter.com/EndCanada/status/1364973703080083465

[3] https://twitter.com/TaxiCabJesus/status/1334382030952353792

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Burry

Re: Heart inflammation cases in young men higher than expected after mRNA vaccines

#338

Post by ljf »

taxicabjesus wrote: post #337
mike_hearn wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alright. As an exhausted 37 year old, I'm going to stick my neck out and explain why I've chosen to put myself at the back of the queue for vaccines this time around. I'm sure the authorities will find some way to force me to take it at some point, but refusing these vaccines is a rational position. You may not agree with it, but it's based on rationality and logic. So here are my reasons. Firstly, I don't believe CO…

I appreciate your comment. > I'm going to stick my neck out and explain why I've chosen to put myself at the back of the queue for vaccines this time around. I'm not getting vaccinated because I think I had "Early Covid", which I define as a case of SARS-CoV-2 before there was a test to diagnose it. Someone on Twitter said the timeline promoted by the media is impossible [2]; Michael Burry (MD in The Big Short [4]) p…

Please don't think that because you have had covid once you can't get it again, nor that the 2nd time won't be any worse than the first. That is not the case.

Re: Heart inflammation cases in young men higher than expected after mRNA vaccines

#339

Post by oogabooga123 »

sudosysgen wrote: post #258
oogabooga123 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very interesting! But I would rather just get infected. To each their own, I’m sure we can agree!

Deciding to get infected is not "to each their own". You will statistically get someone else sick and they might fare much worse than you. Be aware that you are not only deciding for yourself, but for others as well.

I’m aware! Deciding to opt in to a vaccine pass system also harms others. Meanwhile we are warned that if you’re vaccinated, you can still transmit. To each their own!

Re: Heart inflammation cases in young men higher than expected after mRNA vaccines

#340

Post by tim333 »

ljf wrote: post #338
taxicabjesus wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate your comment. > I'm going to stick my neck out and explain why I've chosen to put myself at the back of the queue for vaccines this time around. I'm not getting vaccinated because I think I had "Early Covid", which I define as a case of SARS-CoV-2 before there was a test to diagnose it. Someone on Twitter said the timeline promoted by the media is impossible [2]; Michael Burry (MD in The Big Short [4]) p…

Please don't think that because you have had covid once you can't get it again, nor that the 2nd time won't be any worse than the first. That is not the case.

Although the immunity from having had covid is about the same as having had a vaccine.
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