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Why we should end the data economy

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Re: Why we should end the data economy

#331

Post by matz1 »

janto wrote: post #260
matz1 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the way to go in the future. It will be more and more impractical, very costly, and inconvenient to hide information as technology get better. The problem that need to be solves is not how to hide information but how to fix the issue that arise when the information are public. Lets talk about one example : Right now it is a problem if my credit card number become public because it can be used for unauthorized…

You'd still need to keep something private like a PIN or private key.

Why ? because some one could stole my money or because someone else could log in without my authorization? What if there is a way to prevent that without PIN or private key ?

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#332

Post by rhizome »

cs702 wrote: post #54

No one sane would ever want their relatives, friends, work colleagues, and neighbors to be able to know (quoting from the OP): > who you sleep with because both you and the person you share your bed with keep your phones nearby > whether you sleep soundly at night or whether your troubles are keeping you up > whether you pick up your phone in the middle of the night and search for things like "loan repayment" > your…

Its location is a bit more obscure, but I think there's a much simpler list of privacy practices to follow: whatever Mark Zuckerberg does. Anything he does to protect himself in the data realm is what we should be doing. Yes, I know there was the "Mark's FB has better defaults than yours" story some years ago, but this is outside of FB (though applicable anywhere).

So what is it? Exploding email addresses? Making friends with someone with DMV database access? Temporary credit-card numbers? Tinted windows? Never carrying a wallet? Having an entourage take care of all of this for you? All of the above? Anyway, it would be nice if the zillionaires who have put a lot of resources into personal safety told us what they've learned. Heck, if adopted wide enough their practices might put the crunch on data criminals (though probably also data businesses, which would maybe be a reason they'd resist it.)

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#333

Post by lobocinza »

xibalba wrote: post #173
cs702 wrote: post #54

No one sane would ever want their relatives, friends, work colleagues, and neighbors to be able to know (quoting from the OP): > who you sleep with because both you and the person you share your bed with keep your phones nearby > whether you sleep soundly at night or whether your troubles are keeping you up > whether you pick up your phone in the middle of the night and search for things like "loan repayment" > your…

Would you please demonstrate to me how I, Joe Q. Public, can find out, via collected data that I can access, with whom another person is sleeping with? Or, in lieu of that, walk me through how that would be done with Facebook's, Google's, or Apple's data via your first-hand knowledge of those data and where and how they are stored and accessed? These fear mongering comments about data collection have never demonstrat…

You don't get it. It's not just FAANG and the risk adds everyday. Eventually some of those companies will go bankrupt, be hacked and the data will get in the hands of malicious actors and will be use to commit fraud, to blackmail, etc. Also even if it's used legally and 'ethically' it means things like: 1- we will pay you less because you only earned X at your last job, 2 - we will increase your healthcare costs because you bought a pregnancy test online.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/largest-personal-data-leaka...

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#334

Post by lobocinza »

matz1 wrote: post #175
slver wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From reading this list, I can deduce OP just made up most of them, because over half of them contains details that are total BS. Also I happen to think we'd be a better society if we all knew everything about each other. Instead of discouraging companies from analyzing us, encourage them to publish everything all the time. Let governments join in on the fun. Everyone should be tracking an analyzing everyone else. Sol…

This is the way to go in the future. It will be more and more impractical, very costly, and inconvenient to hide information as technology get better. The problem that need to be solves is not how to hide information but how to fix the issue that arise when the information are public. Lets talk about one example : Right now it is a problem if my credit card number become public because it can be used for unauthorized…

SSI

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#335

Post by old-gregg »

SavantIdiot wrote: post #80
cs702 wrote: post #54

No one sane would ever want their relatives, friends, work colleagues, and neighbors to be able to know (quoting from the OP): > who you sleep with because both you and the person you share your bed with keep your phones nearby > whether you sleep soundly at night or whether your troubles are keeping you up > whether you pick up your phone in the middle of the night and search for things like "loan repayment" > your…

This is a great list. SO many times people have said to me, "Let them track me, I've got nothing to hide." And you hit them with a few things off this list and they immediately change their mind. There should be a tinurl for website I can send people to that shows a simple list of all the ways personal information can be used.

> "Let them track me, I've got nothing to hide."

Interestingly, this attitude used to be default even here on Hacker News ~5 years ago. I am so glad to see it's changing. Why I'm finding this interesting? Because this audience always knew what's going on even without layman articles like this, but did not care for some reason. This shows how just knowing isn't enough sometimes. Public sentiment matters.

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#336

Post by SavantIdiot »

old-gregg wrote: post #335
SavantIdiot wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great list. SO many times people have said to me, "Let them track me, I've got nothing to hide." And you hit them with a few things off this list and they immediately change their mind. There should be a tinurl for website I can send people to that shows a simple list of all the ways personal information can be used.

> "Let them track me, I've got nothing to hide." Interestingly, this attitude used to be default even here on Hacker News ~5 years ago. I am so glad to see it's changing. Why I'm finding this interesting? Because this audience always knew what's going on even without layman articles like this, but did not care for some reason. This shows how just knowing isn't enough sometimes. Public sentiment matters.

I think HN rules are still behind the times. One of the rules discourages multiple accounts, in an attempt to create a community. OTOH: a longer paper trail means more easy to identify. This is why I create a new account every few months. Since I cannot delete old posts to "cover my tracks", I have no choice if I want to use the site. Maybe I just shouldn't use HN. I dunno. I learn a lot from discussions, but I don't always tell the truth because I don't want to be traced.

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#337

Post by Jorengarenar »

jtdev wrote: post #3
anm89 wrote: post #2

Explaining to people what they should do regarding matters that there are no ways to achieve the stated goals is the laziest, lowest value category of journalism. It's a plague.

Uhhh, you can stop using said services and software that abuse privacy, e.g., Facebook, Google, Twitter, TicToc, etc.

In theory. I've deleted my Facebook account. Few years later needed to create new one and used same e-mail address. Guess what welcomed me! My old account! Heck, even posts I had deleted and whole journal (or however its called) related to them, yes it was back again, waiting to be clicked "unhide".

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#338

Post by grzm »

SavantIdiot wrote: post #336
old-gregg wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Let them track me, I've got nothing to hide." Interestingly, this attitude used to be default even here on Hacker News ~5 years ago. I am so glad to see it's changing. Why I'm finding this interesting? Because this audience always knew what's going on even without layman articles like this, but did not care for some reason. This shows how just knowing isn't enough sometimes. Public sentiment matters.

I think HN rules are still behind the times. One of the rules discourages multiple accounts, in an attempt to create a community. OTOH: a longer paper trail means more easy to identify. This is why I create a new account every few months. Since I cannot delete old posts to "cover my tracks", I have no choice if I want to use the site. Maybe I just shouldn't use HN. I dunno. I learn a lot from discussions, but I don't…

Another take is that those running HN know what kind of forum they want (one that promotes community) and understand and accept that trade-off. 'dang has written about this at length, so I think that's very likely the case.

That's not one you're willing to make and you adjust your behavior accordingly. HN can't be all things to all people. And that's okay.

You clearly find some value in HN as it is because you continue to use it. Something to consider: changes you might like to see may very well change the community as a whole to make it less a place you want to be. Hard to say, without running the experiment, but one of the hazards is that running the experiment could irreparably damage/change HN. And rebooting it would be likely nigh impossible. (If it were easy, we'd all create the fora we wanted.)

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#339

Post by Jorengarenar »

matz1 wrote: post #331
janto wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd still need to keep something private like a PIN or private key.

Why ? because some one could stole my money or because someone else could log in without my authorization? What if there is a way to prevent that without PIN or private key ?

Both because someone could stole your money or authorize unwanted action.

What other way of preventing that do you propose? Fingerprint? I will will send the data of fingerprint. Facial recognition? I will just grab your profile picture. What kind of method do you envise that could prove you are you and not somebody malicious?

Re: Why we should end the data economy

#340

Post by mtone »

old-gregg wrote: post #335
SavantIdiot wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a great list. SO many times people have said to me, "Let them track me, I've got nothing to hide." And you hit them with a few things off this list and they immediately change their mind. There should be a tinurl for website I can send people to that shows a simple list of all the ways personal information can be used.

> "Let them track me, I've got nothing to hide." Interestingly, this attitude used to be default even here on Hacker News ~5 years ago. I am so glad to see it's changing. Why I'm finding this interesting? Because this audience always knew what's going on even without layman articles like this, but did not care for some reason. This shows how just knowing isn't enough sometimes. Public sentiment matters.

And public sentiment is not the same everywhere - for instance, the US tends to be more suspicious of government than of (large, public) corporations whereas elsewhere it's the complete opposite.
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