Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#331

Post by katbyte » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 4:38 PM UTC

aaronfitz wrote: post #320

katbyte wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i have my chromecasts and computers on two different vlans and works just fine, but there are a few things you need to do, ensure MDNS works between then and open up a half dozen or so ports.

Do you happen to have a list of the ports you had to open?

no but i can sure get it :)

5556,5557,5558,8010 + MDNS is how i got VLC & videostream to cast across vlans with ubiquiti, of course now i've setup an emby server now so don't bother anymore but i doubt its changed in the last year.

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#332

Post by katbyte » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 4:44 PM UTC

secabeen wrote: post #325

katbyte wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if this was doing for tile what find my did for airtags i don't think there would be such an uproar - this is open internet for whatever the device and manufacturer want to do not an encrypted "hey katbyte your airtag is here" that only the user at the other end can read - i trust apple, and maybe i trust amazon, but i don't; trust the flood of rando devices that will use and abuse this

Perhaps, but Apple didn't even ask about airtags, they just quietly broadened the "Find My network" across all Apple hardware to support this new feature. And there's nothing stopping apple from generalizing their "Find My" network to pass the same type of data that Amazon is.

find my is airtag location -> owner and sidewalk is device amazon/device owner.

airtags has privacy built in and anti stalking, tile and amazon sidewalk does not. Sidewalk is enough bandwidth you could easily drop a location track & voice recorder on someone and have it spy - voice can go as low as 30kbps.

one of these is not like the other

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#333

Post by katbyte » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 4:46 PM UTC

secabeen wrote: post #324

katbyte wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sidewalk device "hey amazon i want to talk to my manufacturer" amazon: "sure thing! let me pipe you through to them" manufacturer "lets connect you to whatever we want on the internet" how is that not unfettered access to whatever the device wants via the manufacture's server?

Because that doesn't give them any access to my internal network, which is the usual objection. If their device wants to talk to an arbitrary server on the public internet, why do I care, when it's all encapsulated in encrypted tunnels? Once the packets emerge from Amazon's server, they can't get back into my network. Yes, this is using some of my bandwidth, but it's capped at 80kbps and 500MB/month, which seems like…

because the issue isn't about access to your network, its the rampant abuses that could be done with it - a stalker/crazy ex could place a recording device that streams audio (only need 30kps) constantly or tracks someone with no repercussions or any of the security airtags has and without users knowledge. This is a classic "move technology forward with no regard to the consequences and who cares about privacy" move.

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#334

Post by jl2718 » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 5:20 PM UTC

shiado wrote: post #7

What will happen is some high profile company that has a few Amazon devices on their network will have these devices exploited to gain network access and get hit with some ransomware/data theft/etc... and then there will be a big legal battle between Amazon and the hacked company and this whole idea will be shut down and consumers will get a $10 class action settlement for each device.

Sidewalk is a separate network that only allows encrypted links back to the AWS cloud. It should not be possible to interact with the host network without two malicious devices, one Trojan with access to the network already, and the other in control of the attacker. Even then, the host would have to give the Trojan access.

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/G/01/sidewalk/final_privac...

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#335

Post by toddh » Thu, Jun 03, 2021, 5:33 PM UTC

atkailash wrote: post #17

toddh wrote: post #4

This option does not exist on my alexa app. So...

Somewhat confusingly (intentionally I’m sure) it’s not a device setting but an Account Setting in the app

Still not an option. I only see Recognized Voices; Guest Connect; Voice Purchasing; Workouts.

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#336

Post by underseacables » Fri, Jun 04, 2021, 2:54 AM UTC

remarkEon wrote: post #68

Article doesn't mention it, but this is how you opt-out (there are others but this one has screenshots). https://www.tomsguide.com/reference/what-is-amazon-sidewalk Added to my list for the next time I'm on the phone with my parents, for our (weekly at this point) how-to sessions on "stopping the industry I work in from spying on you". I really, really wish product managers would understand the kind of ecosystem they…

Product managers do understand, and they do recognize, but they are not making the decisions, and they are powerless to do anything about it. Like any major company, when employee doesn’t want to do something, they will find someone who will.

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#337

Post by detaro » Sat, Jun 05, 2021, 11:48 AM UTC

katbyte wrote: post #333

secabeen wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because that doesn't give them any access to my internal network, which is the usual objection. If their device wants to talk to an arbitrary server on the public internet, why do I care, when it's all encapsulated in encrypted tunnels? Once the packets emerge from Amazon's server, they can't get back into my network. Yes, this is using some of my bandwidth, but it's capped at 80kbps and 500MB/month, which seems like…

because the issue isn't about access to your network, its the rampant abuses that could be done with it - a stalker/crazy ex could place a recording device that streams audio (only need 30kps) constantly or tracks someone with no repercussions or any of the security airtags has and without users knowledge. This is a classic "move technology forward with no regard to the consequences and who cares about privacy" move.

Developing such a thing, registering it with Amazon, Amazon approving it as a compatible product, setting up the integration with Amazon, ... sounds like something nobody would do when they could just use the mobile phone network instead.

Re: Amazon US customers given one week to opt out of mass wireless sharing

#338

Post by katbyte » Sun, Jun 06, 2021, 5:02 PM UTC

detaro wrote: post #337

katbyte wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because the issue isn't about access to your network, its the rampant abuses that could be done with it - a stalker/crazy ex could place a recording device that streams audio (only need 30kps) constantly or tracks someone with no repercussions or any of the security airtags has and without users knowledge. This is a classic "move technology forward with no regard to the consequences and who cares about privacy" move.

Developing such a thing, registering it with Amazon, Amazon approving it as a compatible product, setting up the integration with Amazon, ... sounds like something nobody would do when they could just use the mobile phone network instead.

i can not see amazon doing a good job vetting all the devices/not making it easy to setup a test/dev account and devices. and mobile phone network costs money for each device, sidewalk is free for all?