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Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

dolphin-emu.org

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Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#331

Post by rasz »

threeseed wrote: post #32
jeroenhd wrote: post #24

It's clear AS is a great advancement in general computing, but every piece like this reads as "the hardware is amazing, and it's totally worth it to work around these arbitrary software restrictions". This performance would've been available on iPads years ago if it wasn't for Apple's blanket ban on JIT and the likes. Apple is one of those companies whose hardware I'd love to have if it wasn't for their software and…

Apple’s blanket ban on interpreted code is not arbitrary. It is there to prevent apps circumventing the review process and security model ie. apps pretending to do X during the review process and then doing Y when in use or obfuscating their use of private APIs. Now you can argue these restrictions are unreasonable but many of us don’t want our iPads or iPhones to be like our computers.

you mean like this https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/15/22386533/ios-app-scam-jun... ?

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#332

Post by simondotau »

smoldesu wrote: post #316
fauigerzigerk wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's that simple, and relegating the main issue to a bracketed footnote doesn't make it so. I agree with you that permissions and a sandbox that actually works would have to be part of any solution. But you can rest assured that Facebook wouldn't have made such a fuss if all that was at stake is losing access to IDFA and getting slapped with some unenforceable privacy warning. What's creating a real pro…

I think they do have a point though. If Apple's primary concern was security, they would be approaching this from a fundamentally different perspective; their current solution is a pretty dubious stopgap that bridges "human consent" and "your app". A fundamentally secure approach would ultimately let the user audit and manually control their API interfaces to prevent abuse, instead of just hoping Apple has your best…

Many of Apple’s “security” policies are fundamentally editorial rather than technical restrictions. How do you propose that such editorial policies be enforced? For example: an app which targets children and asks them to supply personal information.

Similarly, Apple’s new, much-lauded anti-tracking policy does have a technical component to it, but it would be easy enough for motivated developers to get around it. All that stops them is app review, or more precisely, the threat of app review.

In both cases, I assert that such editorial control cannot survive store diversification. Right now the App Store policies are able to nudge developers towards pro-consumer behaviours. Any substantive amount of store competition flips the script and means stores will compete to appease developers, rather than apply principles in the long term interest of consumers. The nanosecond after Apple is forced to change their product, big names like Google and Facebook will be the first to set up their own shops, specifically to escape Apple’s pro-consumer editorial policies.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#333

Post by zepto »

lern_too_spel wrote: post #310
zepto wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At least half a billion malicious app installs on iOS and none from F-Droid. It does seem like open source wins there too. You must realize that this is a meaningless comparison, since F-droid is barely used and not a target comparable to iOS. I’m quite sure you are aware of the relative sizes of the stores. If that is a mistaken assumption, please say.

I am well aware of the sizes of the stores. Are you aware that the relative amount of malware is is not merely proportionally less? Are you aware that F-Droid-style reproducible builds are not possible on iOS? People using an iOS device can never be sure they are installing the secure app they wanted to install or some switcheroo. On the other hand, Google's and Amazon's app stores are not open source but built for a…

> I am well aware of the sizes of the stores.

So you compared the absolute numbers, knowing it would be misleading.

> Are you aware that the relative amount of malware is is not merely proportionally less?

You wouldn’t expect them to be merely proportionally less.

You’d expect malware authors to put their efforts where the money is.

> People using an iOS device can never be sure they are installing the secure app they wanted to install or some switcheroo.

This is complete bullshit. Apps are signed by developed and by Apple. Were you not aware of that?

> Google's and Amazon's app stores are not open source but built for an open source platform, together have far more users than the Apple App Store and far fewer malware installations.

Doesn’t seem remotely true - here’s just one recent example:

https://threatpost.com/unpatched-android-app-billion-downloa...

And while we are at it, what’s your source for the half billion malware installs you claim on iOS?

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#334

Post by rodgerd »

nemothekid wrote: post #154
xrd wrote: post #124

Where is the Linux ARM equivalent laptop? When I read about Pine laptops, it never seems like they tout the amazing performance like the M1.

As far as I can tell, Apple is the only company out here who has a production chip with desktop class performance. I think the Pinebook’s chip isn’t even very high end. I personally wonder how long before we start seeing desktop SoCs from Samsung or Qualcomm (probably running Windows?)

If they come from Qualcomm they'll be at least as much of a binary blob problem as the M1s, probably with worse longevity.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#335

Post by macintux »

daveidol wrote: post #236
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an opinion, and Apple does not believe this opinion, nor do they have to. Furthermore, I think that if you look at the comparison of malware prevalence on Android and iOS, the claim that you can have security and openness simultaneously does not appear to be true.

> Apple does not believe this opinion, nor do they have to Hopefully if they lose this case (due to the market reality of being a duopoly) then they will be forced to at least entertain it. Android's way of handling sideloading or multiple app stores is far from the only way to do it. I'm sure Apple could find a better middle ground between what we have now (incredibly locked down, anti-competitive, with arbitrary ru…

From my cursory and amateur reading of the law, a duopoly is only actionable if the two companies conspire together against consumers’ best interest.

Wage fixing aside, and that was years ago, the companies don’t appear to collaborate a lot anymore, much less conspire, other than the payments Google makes to retain its position as the default search engine.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#336

Post by rodgerd »

realusername wrote: post #98
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like everything in technology, you have a choice. If you want openness at the expense of security and privacy, you can purchase an Android or Windows device. If you want security and privacy more than openness, you buy an iPhone. The Hacker News crowd is unique in that we want to have our cake and eat it too by making the iPhone work more like Android and expressing outrage that such a choice exists. So even though I…

What if you got a used phone or tablet though? Are you just supposed to throw it away to the trash and get another one because the manufacturer doesn't approve you using it? And what about devices which aren't supported anymore?

That would be great in theory, but in practice it's far more straightforward to run an iOS device for many, many years (supported by Apple, no less) than to run a device that ships with Android.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#337

Post by rodgerd »

mumblemumble wrote: post #69
fooqux wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> many of us don’t want our iPads or iPhones to be like our computers And many of us do . I would never buy a locked-down piece of hardware like that. But I don't think it matters either way what either side wants, because it's what Apple wants that matters. They want to keep their walled garden's walls air tight, and there are apparently enough people that are OK living in that garden that it works. I'm positive tha…

Google probably didn't do any real calculus, and I strongly doubt it was anything like a principled decision. They probably just realized that it simply wasn't an option. Android lacks the vertical integration that iOS has. It would have been extremely difficult, if not impossible, for Google to get Android licensees to accept such a heavily walled garden. Remember that this decision was made over a decade ago, back…

Certainly around 2010 I had Google folks saying things at conferences like "who wants root on their phone!"; I do think they saw the idea of user control of their phone, hardware diversity and so on as key selling points at that time.

They have pulled back from that drastically, to the point where root doesn't really get you much control on an Android device any more. Whether that's driven by discovering that a very open approach to user control makes for a lot of security issues (which lines up with Apple's claims), or whether its about trying to improve revenue streams, well, who knows?

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#338

Post by Wowfunhappy »

collaborative wrote: post #123
philistine wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s undeniable that a whole class of ARM software was prevented from even being conceived because it has to pass the App Store’s Byzantine set of rules. On the other hand, I see so many software developers vehemently refuse to notarize their Mac versions. Notarization is far less egregious and it pains me to see so many straight up refuse to even consider it as an alternative to the iron grip of the App Store.

I tried notarizing, but gave up after 2 weeks of trying. I used to offer an app that wrapped an entirely java-based (shipped with its own JavaSE JRE) app within an Apple Script launcher. I used to be able to sign it, but the notarization tool simply won't accept my app's bundle. So had to drop it

Please consider shipping it unnotarized. I'd always rather have the option to allow an app through Gatekeeper than to not have a Mac version be available at all.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#339

Post by dang »

Gorbzel wrote: post #118
jeroenhd wrote: post #24

It's clear AS is a great advancement in general computing, but every piece like this reads as "the hardware is amazing, and it's totally worth it to work around these arbitrary software restrictions". This performance would've been available on iPads years ago if it wasn't for Apple's blanket ban on JIT and the likes. Apple is one of those companies whose hardware I'd love to have if it wasn't for their software and…

Guess what? No one does or should care about your opinion of Apple’s software restrictions or corporate philosophy here. As per the article, those visiting the comments were primarily interested in discussion about JIT performance, comparisons between ARM and x64 instruction sets, GameCube/Wii emulation, etc. Instead, every single post on HN even tangentially involving Apple is taken over by these self-important hate…

You do a disservice to your own position by breaking the site guidelines so badly. This is in no way an acceptable comment, regardless of any bad things other people may be doing. Please read the rules and stick to them: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.

We've marked the GP comment off topic now. Certainly it was an example of a generic top subthread, which are the black holes of HN discussion: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que....

Between this and your other recent flamewar comment on the topic (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26994894), I fear you may be falling prey to the community-bias fallacy that I wrote about in a completely different context earlier today: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27268490. HN isn't pro-Apple or anti-Apple — it has users who fall into both of those camps, as for any $BigCo, but unfortunately they each perceive the community as dominated by the other side, which leads to a lot of very bad flamewar comments from both camps.

Please don't post like that any more. Instead, if you see a generic comment taking a thread badly off topic in a predictable way, let us know at https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html so we can downweight it. Giving us a heads-up in such cases is one of the highest-leverage things people can do to improve the quality of HN threads.

Re: Temptation of the Apple: Dolphin on macOS M1

#340

Post by mustacheemperor »

squeaky-clean wrote: post #158
fooqux wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> many of us don’t want our iPads or iPhones to be like our computers And many of us do . I would never buy a locked-down piece of hardware like that. But I don't think it matters either way what either side wants, because it's what Apple wants that matters. They want to keep their walled garden's walls air tight, and there are apparently enough people that are OK living in that garden that it works. I'm positive tha…

Don't buy an iPhone then. I used to be all about customizing my phone, but when the "Phone" app on my android crashed repeatedly while trying to call 911 in an emergency, I now only want a locked-down and stable piece of hardware as my phone.

Similar feelings here. I switched after becoming frustrated by having a phone that so often failed at basic phone things. Turn by turn nav silently ending because I switched to the browser, having a phone call crash because I accidentally opened Snapchat - and that’s before approaching the eldrich nightmare that was trying to run a video call. This was on a “flagship” Samsung Android phone and I have heard the OS is better and more stable now but honestly, I just don’t see a reason to risk it, especially given the switching costs associated.
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