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Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

arstechnica.com

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Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#331

Post by sjy »

HarryHirsch wrote: post #137
realusername wrote: post #3

> Apple countered by arguing that “no reasonable consumer would believe” that content purchased through iTunes would be available on the platform indefinitely Remember this sentence to change your mind for the next time you see some movie to buy online.

University libraries all over the world would disagree, their archivists make very sure that digital journals are still available to their audience even if the subscription has expired. Access to digital content is a solved problem, even though Apple would have you believe otherwise.

How does this work? Is it normal for university libraries to keep a huge secret backup collection of PDFs? What happens if the university chooses to discontinue its subscription, as opposed to the publisher going out of business?

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#332

Post by koolba »

gpm wrote: post #285
crazygringo wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's unreasonable, wouldn't be practical, and goes against precedent. The analogy here is if you buy a vacuum cleaner from a store and it doesn't work because of a defect. You bring it back and get your money back. The store isn't required to provide you with another working vacuum cleaner. If the vacuum cleaner is no longer manufactured, they're not required to find one in mint condition on eBay that's 10x or 100x…

> and goes against precedent. On the contrary, this is with the precedent, damages due to breach of contract, theft, destruction of property, etc are cost to replace not the original cost. And specific performance (i.e. requiring someone perform the action to fulfill the contract) is available if monetary damages aren't calculable (i.e. there is no replacement on the market).

It’s standard to have terms in a contract that limits liability for any warranty to “monies actually received”. That’s in addition to any separate clauses that disclaim any and all explicit warranty. I’ve never signed a contract without such a clause and would bet it’s already a part of all of these terms of service.

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#333

Post by [deleted] »

IX-103 wrote: post #283
Retric wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No you don’t get a license with a CD, you just get an object. It’s only copying that’s protected not existing physical copies. It’s the same with a book you get the physical book and that’s it. If the copyright expired then you can do all kinds of stuff with the book that you don’t otherwise get to do, barring a few exceptions that apply universally.

You're forgetting the performance license. With a (consumer grade) CD you get the rights for private performance of a non-commercial nature. You don't usually get the rights to play the music for large audiences or for commercial use - those cost extra. If you didn't get those rights then you couldn't even play the CD in the privacy of your own home, as that constitutes a performance of the work. (Of course I kind of…

[deleted]

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#334

Post by visarga »

simion314 wrote: post #102
neallindsay wrote: post #6

Not the main point of the case, but I am curious how his account was terminated. Apple does that much less often than Google does (you're not posting death threats in YouTube comments using your Apple account). I'm also curious how he purchased $25k of apps and videos in only two years. Even if this is an extreme case, I hope that Apple (and other platforms) are forced to change their language and/or provide more gua…

> but I am curious how his account was terminated. Most of the time the giants do not tell you what you done wrong. My son managed to get my Sony account banned for 2 months(from all online stuff including the PS Plus that I am I paid a year subscription), there is no way to appeal and the only thing Sony told me in the notification email is that it is about violence or sexual stuff , so fuck knows what t could be ab…

> In my case i decided I will no longer buy any new product from Sony and I will probably jailbreak the console when I think the online features are no longer worth it.

Same here, my daughter got a big Apple account banned by messing with the associated email address, lost access to my "purchases" indefinitely. So I abandoned Apple's platform, I think it was around the time of iPhone 5.

I bought only Android after that, bye bye Apple and your stealing ways, ten years later I haven't forgotten what you did or forgiven you. I bet during this interval you lost more than what you stole from me! During this time I bought at least 4 flagship phones and God knows how many apps from the competition.

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#335

Post by albedoa »

crazygringo wrote: post #276
gpm wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Refunds aren't sufficient, you are owed whatever the replacement cost is. If the good is no longer available except for at 10x or 100x the price, you are owed that. If the good is no longer available at any price, but the person with the liability is capable of making it available, they should be required to do so (or negotiate a contract with you that buys out your rights, but you should be free to decline that or t…

That's unreasonable, wouldn't be practical, and goes against precedent. The analogy here is if you buy a vacuum cleaner from a store and it doesn't work because of a defect. You bring it back and get your money back. The store isn't required to provide you with another working vacuum cleaner. If the vacuum cleaner is no longer manufactured, they're not required to find one in mint condition on eBay that's 10x or 100x…

> and goes against precedent.

Your analogy works against this point. If you were to deprive me of my use of a vacuum cleaner, then a court would absolutely rule that you make me whole. Those damages could be 100x the original price if that valuation can be demonstrated.

The store is bound to the terms of the warranty contract, which usually comes with limitations or allows for discretion when deciding how they shall honor it. But that applies to defects, not deprivation.

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#336

Post by sfifs »

klyrs wrote: post #100
gambiting wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general, contracts can say literally whatever they want, and it doesn't mean they will stand up in court. If the court agrees that Apple selling $25k worth of stuff and denying access to it isn't "fair", then it isn't fair, end of story, regardless of what the contract says. The court might of course disagree, but you can't be certain until the case happens. I do however believe that Apple will just settle this ou…

I'm not sure what you mean by "end of story," apple can tie this up in appeals for years

Presumably the person and more importantly the lawyer who have decided that it is worth suing Apple over just 25k worth of damages have the wherewithal to take this all the way to the supreme court. Incentives in class action suits work weirdly.

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#337

Post by sjy »

IX-103 wrote: post #283
Retric wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No you don’t get a license with a CD, you just get an object. It’s only copying that’s protected not existing physical copies. It’s the same with a book you get the physical book and that’s it. If the copyright expired then you can do all kinds of stuff with the book that you don’t otherwise get to do, barring a few exceptions that apply universally.

You're forgetting the performance license. With a (consumer grade) CD you get the rights for private performance of a non-commercial nature. You don't usually get the rights to play the music for large audiences or for commercial use - those cost extra. If you didn't get those rights then you couldn't even play the CD in the privacy of your own home, as that constitutes a performance of the work. (Of course I kind of…

Copyright does not include an exclusive right to private performance. There is nothing to license here. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/106

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#338

Post by [deleted] »

crossroadsguy wrote: post #249
colllectorof wrote: post #205

The reality is that most big tech companies want to get all the benefits of "going digital", while shifting all the costs or downsides of that move to the consumers. This is not accidental. This is a long-term strategy backed by an elaborate PR campaign. The campaign was so successful that most people aren't even aware of how bizarre the whole idea of "renting" digital content really is. You're "renting" something th…

People are so happy that they are fine with not finding their liked/fav songs regularly on Spotify even after they notice it has gone missing. And they also kinda accept the mediocre recommendation (often laden with ads and "place in front" for pay content) which just feels like habit after a while.

[deleted]

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#339

Post by [deleted] »

mc32 wrote: post #26
realusername wrote: post #3

> Apple countered by arguing that “no reasonable consumer would believe” that content purchased through iTunes would be available on the platform indefinitely Remember this sentence to change your mind for the next time you see some movie to buy online.

Historically media has had a limited play-life. 78s, 45s and 33 warped, broke or got scratched, etc., tapes wore out, broke, got tangled etc., CDs scratched or deteriorated after some time. There are exceptional specimens for all the above, but a good number don’t survive long unless owned by an aficionado who took care of their media. With digital you can have backups and in theory they could last forever as you con…

[deleted]

Re: Apple sued for terminating account with $25k worth of apps and videos

#340

Post by gpm »

koolba wrote: post #332
gpm wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and goes against precedent. On the contrary, this is with the precedent, damages due to breach of contract, theft, destruction of property, etc are cost to replace not the original cost. And specific performance (i.e. requiring someone perform the action to fulfill the contract) is available if monetary damages aren't calculable (i.e. there is no replacement on the market).

It’s standard to have terms in a contract that limits liability for any warranty to “monies actually received”. That’s in addition to any separate clauses that disclaim any and all explicit warranty. I’ve never signed a contract without such a clause and would bet it’s already a part of all of these terms of service.

Yes... because warranties are optional guarantees of fitness being sold on top of the product. We aren't talking about a warranty on the product here, we are talking about the product itself, I have never seen a contract that says "oh, and we can steal the product back from you in exchange for monies actually received", unsurprisingly, outside of digital assets.

And of course that term is common because the default terms for damages can go beyond that (e.g. if replacement value rises).

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