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My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

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Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#331

Post by wnight »

freshfunk wrote: post #327
wnight wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That means that if my country goes to war and I'm drafted then I must fight and possibly die for my country. Societies that raise slave armies aren't free. Or, did I miss where you'd be able to abstain if, for instance, you knew the whole thing was a farce? > Being a citizen doesn't just have benefits but also responsibilities. And consequences. If you're a US taxpayer (one of about 200M) you've recently paid for t…

The USA is not responsible for the citizens of Mexico and to imply that they are is actually insulting to Mexico. It says that they can't take care of their own citizens. Everything else you said is simply biased slander on your part.

We've screwed them over in war, taken land, and forced them to accept unfair treaties. While that's not all that's happened to them, it is enough.

Like Iraq. It may crawl back to where it was before the attack but only at ten times the effort. Likely it'll bear the scars of the war for a century and, if the USA gets its way, suffer "treaties" long after that. Is it insulting to the Iraqis to say that this will set them back, or is it realistic?

> Everything else you said is simply biased slander on your part.

I could say you're a pro-USA fanboy who'll blindly support them regardless because he's afraid his loyalty will be questioned and his citizenship revoked. But, even if I feel you act that way, I won't. Srs. So don't do it to me either, k?

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#332

Post by wnight »

haberman wrote: post #322
wnight wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ok, I've let this slide up until now, but this is a very poor attempt at implying that America has been a primary perpetrator of crimes throughout history or has somehow obtained success by "stealing" it from others. It's true. If we applied the same rules to countries that we do to the mafia, you'd be a criminal conspirator in an agency that has routinely used murder for control and profit. Did you go to an Americ…

> It's true. If we applied the same rules to countries that we do to the mafia, you'd be a criminal conspirator in an agency that has routinely used murder for control and profit. And your hero Che Guevara?

So, you do agree though, right?

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#333

Post by haberman »

wnight wrote: post #332
haberman wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's true. If we applied the same rules to countries that we do to the mafia, you'd be a criminal conspirator in an agency that has routinely used murder for control and profit. And your hero Che Guevara?

So, you do agree though, right?

By your standards no one has clean hands, which makes your standards unsuitable for achieving the moral superiority that you so clearly desire.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#334

Post by anigbrowl »

anonymous246 wrote: post #230
anigbrowl wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is irrelevant to the question of his legal relationship with the US government, which is the matter at issue. Sure, he could go to the Philippines, but that's essentially wishing the problem away. There are a lot of people who are technically citizens of other places but who arrived in the US at such a young age that they have no memory of ever living abroad, and often don't even speak the language. Why should s…

Although I disagree with you, I applaud you for your eloquence. AFAIK, immigrants (whether legal or illegal) are in a gray area wrt constitutional protections. For example, on entry all aliens (including perm. residents) are fingerprinted whereas citizens are not. The lowly officer examining your papers can decide to not admit an alien into the country if you mouth off, and he's pretty much the final authority. I ser…

Excuse me for following this up late, as I did not have time previously. The problematic aspect of this is that while an admitting officer has a great deal of discretion and someone excluded from entry to the US has little immediate recourse, a person who is already in the US has a somewhat different legal situation. Of course, how and when the person arrived affects that, but in the case of someone brought as an infant or small child (and thus, incapable of criminal responsibility at entry), it's legally rather difficult to say whether they have in fact broken any laws.

This raises some complex 14th amendment issues. In one sense, I'd like to see these clarified by the Supreme court. In another, I'm skeptical of the wisdom of doing so because Chief Justice roberts argued against equal treatment of illegal immigrant children in the Texas school system in a famous case called Plyler v. Doe (1982). He lost, and I have a hunch he is still a bit sore about it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plyler_v._Doe

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#335

Post by onlineph »

ebiester wrote: post #71
nick-dap wrote: post #51

I'm in the same boat. It's been difficult. I cannot express how grateful I am to Jose Vargas for writing this story. I was brought here as a kid 13 years ago. I'm 24 now. I also graduated from a "top" university -- like that matters. I guess my parents weren't smart enough to get a fake social security card for me back then, I wish they were. I've also been fighting for the Dream Act for what feels like an eternity.…

Trust me, there's nobody on this board that is more sympathetic than I am. I am 110% behind you with the DREAM act, and my money has gone to Immigration Equality which has lobbied for this issue. (For different reasons, but suffice to say I'm an ally.) There's one simple problem with changing immigration, and that's the system is working as intended. Farm workers can't unionize nearly as easily if they are undocument…

For me, those documents are but papers that marks the existence of a certain person in the political angle. It seems like papers are more valuable than life. Jose and you deserved recognition by papers. Hopefully, many people like you would support the Dream Act.

Anyways, it's the states policy.

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#336

Post by onlineph »

freshfunk wrote: post #194
nick-dap wrote: post #51

I'm in the same boat. It's been difficult. I cannot express how grateful I am to Jose Vargas for writing this story. I was brought here as a kid 13 years ago. I'm 24 now. I also graduated from a "top" university -- like that matters. I guess my parents weren't smart enough to get a fake social security card for me back then, I wish they were. I've also been fighting for the Dream Act for what feels like an eternity.…

The story was a moving one and I hope Vargas gets to stay. With that said, I think illegal immigration creates all kinds of societal problems and is unfair to legal immigrants. The problem it creates is that there's enormous stress on those that are illegal. They live in the shadows and can be taken advantage of. My own personal experience was driving in LA and being rear-ended by someone who then fled the scene (mos…

If the US would dump Jose Vargas, I assure you, his home country would gladly accept him and big opportunity awaits him here.

For sure the big papers and TV network here in the Philippines would race to get Jose to join them.

JV, it's time to face another world. We got your back!

Re: My Life as an Undocumented Immigrant

#337

Post by wnight »

haberman wrote: post #333
wnight wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, you do agree though, right?

By your standards no one has clean hands, which makes your standards unsuitable for achieving the moral superiority that you so clearly desire.

The world is full of people who haven't made war and enslaved others for their own gain, but is short on countries that have not.

But the complicity of other countries in no way lessens the fact that much of the USA's wealth, and thus success, is stolen.

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