Berlin rent cap overturned by Germany's top court • Hacker News Board

Re: Berlin rent cap overturned by Germany's top court

#331

Post by corty » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 2:42 PM UTC

qayxc wrote: post #322

corty wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it was really such a big deal, "someone" would've paid "somebody" already to relocate the animals "after business hours", if you catch my drift. There's more going on behind the scenes for sure that we just don't know about. Doesn't work, the next thing that will happen is the tree-huggers (B.U.N.D. and others) will get public money to re-establish the population and impose stricter protection measures. In Germa…

> In Germany, the environment gets far far better protection than the people. So how come Glyphosat wasn't banned immediately then? How come nitrate in drinking water goes up [0] and treatment becomes ever more expensive while at the same time industrial livestock farming still gets heavily subsidised? German politics still bends a knee to industrial farming, chemical industry, and heavy industry more than the enviro…

Well, yes. Because environmental activism is basically an instrument of NIMBYism, not anything based on facts, evidence or logic. Nobody really protests when farmers spread their poison, because that would be inconveniently far away, lots of work, etc. But protesting about the destruction of the neighbouring daisy habitat is an easy feel-good measure, and if you can NIMBY you way into higher value of your real estate by scarcer ground for housing construction, all the better.

Re: Berlin rent cap overturned by Germany's top court

#332

Post by KptMarchewa » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 4:14 PM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #117

adrianN wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is EXACTLY what you get by building dense housing. You leave room for the important things that a city offers: services, events, jobs, greenery all in walkable or bikeable distance. Otoh sprawl development leads to dead neighborhoods, car dependence and long commutes. It also uses space that could be left to nature instead.

"Dense housing" is code for "chicken coops" with the only space people have for themselves being 40 m² for a family of four. Seriously, thanks but no thanks. There is a middle way between US-level sprawl and Japan-style chicken coops - and I definitely hope we don't go the Japan route.

Japan style housing, just like British, is "dense" in the sense of buildings being physically close. It's not what the post is about - it's about building buildings with higher number of storeys.

Re: Berlin rent cap overturned by Germany's top court

#333

Post by nicbou » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 4:24 PM UTC

oled10 wrote: post #55

The rental situation is bleak. There's a two class system of people who got cheap housing 20 years ago and can never move (like in New York). If they move, they keep the apartment and sublet it. Then there is a massive indiscriminate sellout of property to very rich foreigners. In some top locations you hear more Russian than German in the streets. Otherwise, in the lower segments there is enormous pressure from refu…

Keeping the apartment and subletting it is non-trivial since the landlord is not forced to accept it, and has no incentive to. Illegal sublets are common, but more inconvenient.

The part about hearing more Russian that German doesn't ring true to me, and reeks of xenophobia. Doubly so for the non sequitur quip about refugees.

Re: Berlin rent cap overturned by Germany's top court

#334

Post by e_proxus » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 4:40 PM UTC

corty wrote: post #228

0xfaded wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Equally, why not build more housing until there is a 4% vacancy rate? This seems to have worked wonders in SF.

NIMBYism, environmental regulations, building codes and lack of money and interest by the state. Berlin had the nice example of a few square kilometers of the Tempelhof airport field being available. Public demanded to make it a park instead of constructing housing. Almost anything with a tree on it is impossible to build on, and even if there is a building permit for the housing, attaching it to public transports li…

No experience with the building codes in Berlin, but a least the N story limit makes sense to me. It would totally destroy the look and feel of many parts of the city of this wasn’t in place.

What I think is a bigger problem is the countless vacant lots all over the city. Even centrally there are tons of them, e.g. with only a one story supermarket or parking lots (as mentioned above) or sometimes it’s just overgrown. I wonder what the deal are with those. My guess is that the city already sold them in more dire times and now owners just sit on them until the real estate prices makes the time ripe to build something there. Can’t find another explanation for it.

Re: Berlin rent cap overturned by Germany's top court

#335

Post by e_proxus » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 4:42 PM UTC

llampx wrote: post #210

pitkali wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I prefer the Swedish queues.

Those are great if you can wait years

Last I looked in Gothenburg those seem a joke. Only about 50 apartments in the whole city and an average queue time of 10 years or so.

Re: Berlin rent cap overturned by Germany's top court

#336

Post by stjohnswarts » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 4:59 PM UTC

mattmanser wrote: post #106

tonyjstark wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here. The city itself should build as many cheap rental apartments as possible, also in more higher-priced areas to keep the pricing there in check. Building more housing is the only way out of this soaring pricing. EDIT: not only rental apartments of course but more housing in general. A second step would be, to make sure that rental housing is used for that instead of AirBNB or any other investment. It would a…

So here in the UK, our councils used to build social housing. 300,000 per year. And then Thatcher made it illegal and said privately owned housing associations would fill the gap. In the 30 years since then, the most they've ever managed is 30,000. It's not in private landowner's interest to build cheap social housing. It reduces rents, it suppresses property values. So they don't get built. If they do build anything…

Same thing happens here in Austin, if you don't force them to also build affordable housing as part of their deal with the city virtually 0 will be build because the profit margins are so much more with luxury apartments that are 500 sq ft and you can fit a ton of them in a high rise.

Re: Berlin rent cap overturned by Germany's top court

#337

Post by stjohnswarts » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 5:00 PM UTC

skohan wrote: post #128

tonyjstark wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here. The city itself should build as many cheap rental apartments as possible, also in more higher-priced areas to keep the pricing there in check. Building more housing is the only way out of this soaring pricing. EDIT: not only rental apartments of course but more housing in general. A second step would be, to make sure that rental housing is used for that instead of AirBNB or any other investment. It would a…

> A second step would be, to make sure that rental housing is used for that instead of AirBNB or any other investment. This is already in place. Berlin is very strict about apartment usage. Once a unit is designated as a living space, it's very difficult to get a permit to use it as an AirB&B. Also if you own an apartment, it's illegal to leave it without a tenant for an extended period - I think 90 days is the maxim…

I think that 90 day limit is great, it would help my city a lot because of all the speculative market buyers who buy and hold just as a store of wealth hoping to flip it for a profit after a few years

Re: Berlin rent cap overturned by Germany's top court

#338

Post by f6v » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 5:05 PM UTC

Tenoke wrote: post #258

durnygbur wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You hate us cause you ain't us. No worries we don't pass through the apartment applicant selection either. Now you need to be young attractive woman with a partner, Western sounding names and surnames, both employed with high salary. All documented.

What? Non-Germans have it much harder finding a place here even if their names are western.

Tech workers are top earners. And at my last company in Berlin we haven’t had a German developer in years.

Re: Berlin rent cap overturned by Germany's top court

#339

Post by f6v » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 5:07 PM UTC

goodpoint wrote: post #245

pitkali wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While 80k is above a median for a senior software developer, it is not unattainable, as far as I know.

Can you provide sources?

The only one I know https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/13p6Hr9kSZuVKbQgO...

Re: Berlin rent cap overturned by Germany's top court

#340

Post by vkou » Thu, Apr 15, 2021, 5:09 PM UTC

throw4738 wrote: post #23

vkou wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a horrible argument, because the same can be said for land ownership. Isn't it unfair that when I move somewhere, I discover that all the land in that area is already owned by someone else. Why should some old history entitle someone to exclusive ownership of any piece of land, and the ability to charge arbitrary rents for it? The fact of the matter is, first movers have all sorts of unfair advantages over la…

No, this system is more like feudalism or serfdom. When I move in, you expect me to work on your land, so protected class does not have to work. Young people and foreigners have to pay large taxes and rents, to subside older people.

Young people become old people, serfs don't become feudal lords.

Foreigners can naturalize (and most of them have the freedom to weigh the costs of paying into systems they don't benefit from, and consider whether or not immigrating is worth it.)