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Flutter 2

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Re: Flutter 2

#331

Post by dmitryminkovsky »

qbasic_forever wrote: post #310
dmitryminkovsky wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If today FAANG had to choose: shut down your websites or shut down your native apps: which would it be? Which platform did Clubhouse build out first? Why?

Clubhouse is targeting the middle-class silicon valley market right now (quite literally, those are the only people who got invites early on), who of course are infatuated with apps and have the money for fancy phones, tablets, etc. It's smart marketing for them to go where their customers are right now. The web is for everyone--I can go to an internet cafe in a slum and browse and buy from the same Amazon.com as I c…

Not sure what personal income has to do with anything. Hand held touch devices have revolutionized Internet access. The deeper down the income scale you go, the less likely you are to encounter a personal computer while you’ll still likely encounter a smart phone. Amazon will work on the web or as an app on that phone, but with the app the user experience will be better. That may be because Google and Apple have intentionally prioritized native APIs while hindering PWAs, but that’s still the case.

Anyway, I do still wonder: if FAANG had to pick between native and web apps, which do you think would they pick?

Re: Flutter 2

#332

Post by ROARosen »

skavi wrote: post #122
sydd wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've tested on my phone (1yr old pretty good Android one) and the whole thing is very laggy runs with like 10fps. What about a11y? The whole thing feels like Adobe Flex in 2010. It solves a great deal of problems that the web had but introduced a plethora of others.

Another data point is the new flutter Google Pay app vs the old version. On my iPhone 11 Pro, the former is incredibly laggy. The latter is as smooth as you’d expect given the hardware.

iPhone 6s, the new Google Pay app is disastrously laggy to point of being unusable

Re: Flutter 2

#334

Post by itoocode »

davidkhess wrote: post #251
itoocode wrote: post #209

Flutter is winning the race in cross platform development. I have been using Flutter for past few days, and I really like the package on whole, tools and community. Having used Xamarin and Qt in the past, Flutter is a lot easier to learn.

I'm curious, when you refer to Qt, do you mean the QWidget application approach or QML? QML is much more like Flutter (but is indeed somewhat arcane to learn how to work with).

I meant Qml, is much more like Flutter, but I felt the learning curve was steeper than flutter.

Re: Flutter 2

#335

Post by drewda »

blacktriangle wrote: post #132
yagodragon wrote: post #112

We're all complaining about how js is a bad language, tooling is a mess, and how the web is fundamentally built for documents and makes it hard to create app-like experiences. Now, Google comes and creates a whole new UI toolkit from scratch, couples it with a very beautiful SDK and component framework and offers a far better programming language than js could ever be but we're still nagging. I was also pretty disapp…

We're nagging because the apps suck and stick out like a sore thumb. Maybe Flutter will be the one to get there and be the holy grail of cross platform UI development, but the developer community has been burned by this promise so many times, we're going to have to see the final product before getting excited. Just because a project is ambitious doesn't mean we should all jump on board, particularly when similar proj…

On this note, I have 60% fond memories of Appcelerator Titanium and 40% frustrating memories :)

Re: Flutter 2

#336

Post by qbasic_forever »

blowski wrote: post #309
qbasic_forever wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Extremely same feeling here. Ditching IE11 support is a total game-change for the web. ES module imports just work and you don't have to go down a complex bundler rabbit-hole. Template literals make constructing HTML inside JS components a breeze. And if you do reach for a bundler the modern ones like snowpack and vite make the experience incredible with instant hot module reload on change--the feedback loop for deve…

The problem with JS is not the tooling per se but the constant "upgrades" for the tools that exist. Sure, this week's hot new thing is Vite, but by this time next year it will be out of date with some other thing we're all supposed to use. In projects from the last 10 years, I see Gulp, Grunt, Webpack, Browserify, and now Vite - all doing mostly the same thing in different ways, with different config files.

You don't have to use any tools, plain old HTML, CSS and javascript still work just like they did 25 years ago.

Tools come and go, they serve a purpose like writing code in a more futuristic style and compiling it down to a broader browser support base. There will always be a treadmill like that in any language. Look at how C++ has evolved from its 90's roots to more modern C++11, 14, and 17 styles--each change also required more work for the tooling, compilers, build systems, etc. to learn. It's just in the C++ world there are far less people working on tools than in the web world.

Re: Flutter 2

#337

Post by okamiueru »

kroltan wrote: post #314
okamiueru wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would expect you to have come from a react background then? When evaluating technologies 1.5 years ago for the company I work at, I took a good look at comparing both react native, as well as flutter, and we decided on flutter. Now, out of the many considerations we had, in this process, "cannot copy the text" is... well, I have no idea what you are talking about. Are you referring to not being able to do this in a…

Looks like a very developer/product-owner-sided opinion, not being able to select text and other "trivial" things are what makes software tolerable and actually usable, as listed by sibling post by kevincox, I'll quote: > Yup. I would also like to open links in new tabs, view images, copy links, search on page, use browser extensions... Throwing away all platform conventions is a very heavy-handed and user-unfriendly…

I do appreciate your point of view on this, and I hope I did not come across as dismissive of your choice. If it was a thorough evaluation of the capabilities, and it did not seem able to provide the user interactions you needed, I'm sure that is then a reasonable enough basis. My knee-jerk reaction however, was to think this might have been made without properly evaluating the capabilities of the platform. If I head over to https://gallery.flutter.dev/#/crane, I am annoyed by how "app-like" it feels. I'm in a browser, I should be able to select tings. Clicking and dragging isn't supposed to scroll, it's supposed to select. It feels all wrong. But then again, this was mostly when coming at it from a "this is a website" approach. If the use case is to develop an app, then the conventions used have not felt weird to me.

Re: Flutter 2

#338

Post by awesomepeter »

jaegerpicker wrote: post #220
yagodragon wrote: post #112

We're all complaining about how js is a bad language, tooling is a mess, and how the web is fundamentally built for documents and makes it hard to create app-like experiences. Now, Google comes and creates a whole new UI toolkit from scratch, couples it with a very beautiful SDK and component framework and offers a far better programming language than js could ever be but we're still nagging. I was also pretty disapp…

Are you a native mobile developer? I am (was I'm moving to ML/AI/Data engineering) and I don't think flutter is in any way easier or nicer than the native toolchains for mobile. Both Swift and Kotlin are better languages than Dart IMO, the IDE and tooling is far superior for both also. Flutter is faster but once to deploy a substandard quality of app for sure but matching the quality of a native app? That takes just…

If you had to pick a multiplatform solution (for whatever reason) which one would you pick? I've been exploring this space a bit, and it's really hard to form an opinion on this.

Re: Flutter 2

#339

Post by sriku »

eseidelGoogle wrote: post #98
sydd wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've tested on my phone (1yr old pretty good Android one) and the whole thing is very laggy runs with like 10fps. What about a11y? The whole thing feels like Adobe Flex in 2010. It solves a great deal of problems that the web had but introduced a plethora of others.

[Flutter Eng. Dir. here] Still relatively early days for Flutter Web, so I would not be shocked if it's not buttery everywhere. However, we would certainly love to learn more. fluter.dev/support has links as to how to file an issue if you're interested. https://flutterplasma.dev/ is one demo to try. We expect to be updating flutter.dev/web and flutter.dev/showcase to update more over time.

Sorry but the plasmadev demo doesn't pass muster compared to 60fps animations we were able to do years ago with html+js. Something about the renderer approach is causing hiccups in the animation.

"Buttery smooth animations and scrolling" will be a great selling point for flutter ..if it actually works.

(Firefox)

Re: Flutter 2

#340

Post by [deleted] »

muxator wrote: post #308
dmitryminkovsky wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> History has shown us over and over again, always bet on the web. This is a mantra on HN. But is it true? I don’t think it is if you’re trying to build a big product mainstream people will use. People want native apps. No one needs the apps to work in 25 years. The web is just part of the picture, an important part, but still just a part.

> People want native apps. I'll take a well done web page anytime over a native app.

[deleted]
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