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Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

bbc.com

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Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#331

Post by heterodoxxed »

sleepysysadmin wrote: post #176
BitwiseFool wrote: post #14

I genuinely wonder what cancel culture is going to look like in the next 5-10 years and beyond. Just about everyone I speak to about the subject agrees that cancel culture is bad but very few people seem willing to confront it. I sense that people hope the rest of society will come to its senses and we all stop being so judgemental. But as much as I loathe cancel culture and it's chilling effects on the free exchange…

>So all that being said, I genuinely wonder if cancel culture is here to stay, because the next ideology to come along will also realize how powerful of a tool it is. Here to stay for sure. There's an active group of people behind it. They are the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Left and they still exist today. The problem is that in 1989 when socialism died. They started their rebranding effort. They became Politi…

I don't understand how someone can write this much without knowing the difference between neoliberalism and leftism.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#332

Post by [deleted] »

refenestrator wrote: post #175
RobLach wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hardly so. There's ample evidence that the current is the greatest opportunity for dissenting thought and opinion to have massive reach without much consequence or effort. The idea that we're in a dark age of thought is purely rhetorical and only serves to frame a narrative that further amplifies ideas that would never had a chance to propagate before the information era. Furthermore, we are living in a time of such…

What's interesting is that heretical liberals have the most to fear in this environment. MAGA people can't be cancelled, and it's a badge of honor if attempted. But well-meaning unorthodox liberals really have to watch themselves.

[deleted]

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#333

Post by core-questions »

nobodyandproud wrote: post #324
throwawaygh wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Let's not pretend that you are allowed to teach at Harvard, at least in certain departments, without a very specific political leaning. And certain other political leanings are not allowed in any department. I can't speak to all of Harvard's departments, but I know it's completely possible to have a wide variety of political viewpoints in SEAS. The faculty itself is probably to the right of the immediately surround…

“Diversity”, like what happened with Lawrence H. Summers? An individual who I thought got a raw deal and was completely misunderstood, when he gave his speech.

Really? Seems like a typical parenthetical elite, with all the connections and intrigue that go with it. His history is a standard playbook of actions benefiting himself and his people over everyone else.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#334

Post by falcolas »

bachmeier wrote: post #117

Surprising how much press "cancel culture" gets these days as if it's a new thing or as if it's a new thing being pushed on society by the left . We've always had cancel culture. Some might remember the Dixie Chicks. How about the Rachael Ray ad that Dunkin Donuts pulled merely because it looked like an Arab scarf? Jerry Falwell came to prominence entirely based on his pushing of cancel culture. When I lived in North…

Frankly, who cares whether this is new or not? Why does that even matter?

It's negatively affecting people (for this article, the young authors who are self-censoring), and should be fought against.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#335

Post by sudosysgen »

dragonwriter wrote: post #330
sudosysgen wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you. But there is a lot of leftist infighting, especially between MLs, Anarchists, LibSocs, DemSocs, AnComs, etc... And there is also of neoliberals that pretend to be leftist, yes, so called "Radlibs". Then there are leftists that accuse other leftists that aren't of their same brand of being liberals, for example MLs calling anarchists liberals because they admit markets, or anarchists calling MLs capi…

No one (on the Left, obviously the Right does this), including people who critique Leninists (who I assume you are referring to as MLs) for supporting “state capitalism”, calls Leninists “liberals”. Or, at least, approximately nobody; you can find examples of anything, but it's not like a significant thing.

It's a stupid and ridiculous critique, I agree, but yes I have seen people call MLs liberals. It is quite wild.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#336

Post by throwaway894345 »

solosoyokaze wrote: post #192
refenestrator wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's interesting is that heretical liberals have the most to fear in this environment. MAGA people can't be cancelled, and it's a badge of honor if attempted. But well-meaning unorthodox liberals really have to watch themselves.

Leftists get canceled all the time (by liberals). Look at the censoring/smearing of Bernie Sanders and his supporters during the primary. Twitter bans leftist accounts all the time as well. Take a look at every VC in our industry and they espouse staunchly establishment neo-liberal policies. Calling Biden into question (which anyone on the left would do) is risking your career. The focus is often on censoring those o…

> Calling Biden into question (which anyone on the left would do) is risking your career.

Who has ever been fired for supporting Sanders over Biden?

> Twitter bans leftist accounts all the time as well.

Probably not because they were leftist, but rather because they violated some rule (and at that, probably only a small fraction of Tweets which violate their rules). Twitter is pretty happy to fill my timeline with the craziest left-wing stuff including a lot of things that violate their own rules.

> Take a look at every VC in our industry and they espouse staunchly establishment neo-liberal policies.

What? You're surprised that VC support capitalist policies? You know what "VC" stands for, right? Anyway, "supporting capitalist policies" is not the same thing as "canceling leftists".

This is a poorly reasoned post.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#337

Post by undefined1 »

dash2 wrote: post #203
RobLach wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hardly so. There's ample evidence that the current is the greatest opportunity for dissenting thought and opinion to have massive reach without much consequence or effort. The idea that we're in a dark age of thought is purely rhetorical and only serves to frame a narrative that further amplifies ideas that would never had a chance to propagate before the information era. Furthermore, we are living in a time of such…

"Dark age of thought" would be excessive (and is maybe a straw man). But there's plenty of people being cancelled: https://www.afaf.org.uk/the-banned-list/ https://sutherlandhousebooks.com/who-cancel/

I'm not sure that is an excessive description anymore.

Jerry Seinfeld, a mainstream comedian, stopped playing at college campuses years ago already because he was getting picked apart and no longer welcome. at precisely the place that is supposed to be the most transgressive and open to ideas! a place to expand minds, remember? now it fully embraces orthodoxy and censorship.

or take the case of Bret Weinstein. a liberal, progressive professor who was exiled from campus for not bending to the mob. now he's being called a eugenicist, white supremacist and more with little resistance. here's a transcript from Clubhouse just a few days ago:

Brett W: "Let me just say, I am an evolutionary biologist. I'm very interested in how language actually changes..."

Brooklyn: "A eugenicist."

Brett: "Say again?"

Brooklyn: "A eugenicist. That's what you mean as evolution..."

Brett: "No, no, no..."

Brooklyn: "Those are the same thing."

Brett: "No, it's not the same thing."

Brooklyn: "They are the same. They are the same. I've seen the research. They are the same. You will not argue that here, you're not about to wiggle out of that."

you can hear the whole exchange here: https://youtu.be/YyCj5UaG1kI?t=9900

this isn't just a one off thing, it's increasingly prevalent. if we're not already in an intellectual dark age, we're on the fast track to it. the trend line is clear.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#338

Post by solosoyokaze »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #336
solosoyokaze wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leftists get canceled all the time (by liberals). Look at the censoring/smearing of Bernie Sanders and his supporters during the primary. Twitter bans leftist accounts all the time as well. Take a look at every VC in our industry and they espouse staunchly establishment neo-liberal policies. Calling Biden into question (which anyone on the left would do) is risking your career. The focus is often on censoring those o…

> Calling Biden into question (which anyone on the left would do) is risking your career. Who has ever been fired for supporting Sanders over Biden? > Twitter bans leftist accounts all the time as well. Probably not because they were leftist, but rather because they violated some rule (and at that, probably only a small fraction of Tweets which violate their rules). Twitter is pretty happy to fill my timeline with th…

We live in a capitalist system, so yes the capitalists have a massive amount of power over our lives. People self-censor all the time, it's not just about getting fired.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#339

Post by lostcolony »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #253
lostcolony wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the prior post was making the case we -have- progressed?

It seemed like “we have progressed, therefore it’s okay to backslide and no one should criticize cancellation”. After all, no one here is arguing that the 1500s, 1600s, etc were the golden ages of speech.

I think it's presumptuous to assume "it's okay to backslide" was part of that comment. What/when are we backsliding from? There was never some 'golden age' where comments anathema to the culture at large wouldn't have consequences. Even the popular victims of cancel culture now have it better than the ones in the 1950s, say (i.e., Gina Carano may have been fired from one company, but that was because she persisted in espousing views they disagreed with; compare that to 1950s era blackballing from all of Hollywood for being -suspected- of supporting communism/socialism).

I think for it to imply "it's okay to backslide" we have to have actually broached a time we've backslid -from-. Pursuant to the article, I don't really consider it backsliding if authors are now having second thoughts about writing from cultural perspectives other than their own. They have to be selective, of course, but we don't need, for instance, a white author writing about noble savages. That's not to say a white author can't write a western; it does mean they need to be very careful with the tone of it, or, yes, risk offending people. And recognize that some people will be offended no matter what, so they also need to recognize that some people aren't worth listening to.

It's called sensitivity, not censorship. Yes, sensitivity might lead to self-censorship, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. And you may miss the mark, and there will be consequences, and you might hit the mark but still have angry people, but angry people have yelled about every piece of literature we have. It's a balancing act, and it always has been; and I would contend consequences now are the weakest they have ever been.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#340

Post by klyrs »

wrycoder wrote: post #323
robotresearcher wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are lots of batshit ideas that get that far. Let's pay attention to help make sure they don't get into law.

It’s a clear violation of freedom of the press, but never mind.

It's an idea that hasn't gained traction. Fox News isn't cancelled, and the freedom of the press has not been infriged, even if some folks want that to happen. Fox is so popular as to be undeniably mainstream, but still pushes a persecution narrative that they're on the brink of cancellation. It hasn't happened. There's no bill, no law, no executive order. Perhaps onesuch could violate the freedom of the press, if enforced, but nonesuch exists.
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