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“User Engagement” Is Code for “Addiction”

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Re: “User Engagement” Is Code for “Addiction”

#331

Post by utucuro »

andrewmcwatters wrote: post #330
hesdeadjim wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was in early and rode the wave from selling real games for $4.99, then $2.99, then $0.99, and finally... free. At which point the “real” part of making games was out the window and it was all user acquisition, LTVs, retention, and ugh. Couldn’t have been more happy to get out of casual and F2P games four years ago. I honestly thought I might be done making games after that experience. Thankfully, between doing the…

> Thankfully, between doing the indie thing for a few years and starting a new studio last year, it became clear it was the medium and not the craft that was the problem. Do you mean to say it's specifically a mobile issue?

I would say it's a free to play issue. A lot of these games exist on multiple platforms, basically wherever microtransactions are supported. Gems of War, for example, exists on mobile, on PC (Windows store, Steam), on Playstation, Switch and Xbox...

Re: “User Engagement” Is Code for “Addiction”

#332

Post by raindropm »

luplex wrote: post #297
dillondoyle wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yesterday I saw on Cardi B's stories she did a paid post promotion for a game that is literally a slot machine.. It's designed with childlike graphics and her followers are very young. It's marked as teen in google store. God even the first review shows how blatant this is: "I'm really not big on games but this game is the truth. I cant stop playing it. I go to sleep to it. Wake to it. My day is filled with ways of f…

Why does this type of ad work? Do people want to be addicted to something so badly? Don't they have something better to do?

People just don't have "free", quiet time to think or to reflect about things anymore, stolen by various things, social media mostly. You'll operate in automatic, always-consuming mode, rigged by algorithm, and that doesn't help you thinking critically when this kind of ads comes up.

and companies exploit these things and make tons of money, sad.

Re: “User Engagement” Is Code for “Addiction”

#333

Post by jodrellblank »

lordnacho wrote: post #99
luplex wrote: post #41

I did an internship with a very profitable Swedish mobile game before the pandemic, and it was really interesting to see the doublethink: everyone knew we were making a drug, but people avoided speaking of it in that way. It was always "our most engaged players readily spend on in-game items", and never "the most addicted users spend money so they can continue playing" It was a great workplace, but I don't think it w…

Plausible deniability is such a wonderful idea. There's a lot of things that fall on a spectrum, and this fact can be used to pretend that motivations are different to what they really are. For instance, where is the line between investing and gambling? A friend of mine was looking into setting up a spreadbetting firm once, so he went talking to insiders. It turns out 90% of people lose 90% of their money in 90 days,…

> "It turns out 90% of people lose 90% of their money in 90 days, and that's what several firms told him. But of course they don't lead with this fact"

They do in the UK; the first one I googled is https://pepperstone.com/en-gb/trading/spread-betting/ and it has a banner accross the top of the page (like a cookie banner, above the header) saying "Spread bets and CFDs are complex instruments and come with a high risk of losing money rapidly due to leverage. 79.8% of retail investor accounts lose money when trading spread bets and CFDs with this provider.". This is typical here on sites and adverts for sites.

Re: “User Engagement” Is Code for “Addiction”

#334

Post by jraph »

yawaworht1978 wrote: post #115

Yes all the social medias are addiction merchants. The people know full well that they sacrifice their data, but they do not care about that or ads. The people use them for gratification about likes and as a platform to be "heard" or voice their opinions. Society is punishing drug users and vendors, which might be the right thing to do or not, I am not a decision maker. But the addiction should be measured in dopamin…

> Similar to vegan, bio labeled food.

What's with organic vegan food? It wrongly looks harmless? It targets most vulnerable and young?

Vegan and organic are criteria/characteristics, not things meant to be addictive. It's not similar. Sure, they can be highlighted for marketing purposes, but what characteristic seen as positive can't?

Re: “User Engagement” Is Code for “Addiction”

#335

Post by cush »

montenegrohugo wrote: post #8

I'd add that algorithmic feeds are another part of the triad (quartet?), and probably the worst offender. Personalized addictive content is on the rise (tiktok, YouTube, even Facebook and Twitter curate your newsfeed "for you" ), and these ml-determined feeds drive engagement to the highest possible levels, leading to an incredible waste of time, a distorted world view (mostly the posts with the highest engagement wi…

Tiktok's algorithm is on a completely other level.

Re: “User Engagement” Is Code for “Addiction”

#336

Post by thecupisblue »

ketzo wrote: post #172
thecupisblue wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fixing bullshit left by others, refactoring parts of the machine, copying other apps, working on pointless panels and ideas that will be killed in a hot minute or forgotten about, working on internal tools or mostly - fighting internal political battles to get a promotion/more money/authority/status. Most of the people are not there to innovate but to earn money and status for themselves by working at the big F***K

You sound like you're speaking from experience, so I wanna ask: How genuinely true do you think this is? I'm always curious, about the FAANGs in general but Facebook in particular. Divorced from as much cynicism as possible, what % of level I-III software employees are just there for their resumes?

In software? I'd say about 50-60 in S1 and going down to like 30-40 in S3, but a high percentage none the less.

Outside of software, you will probably get to 70+%.

It's not just a facebook problem, its a problem of a lot of large orgs with large salaries and "prestige" associated. People get in just to use it as a "platform" to launch their career, they bring their status and political games with them, read books such as "How to win fake political friends and push your influence to others" and then implement them. They lack real visions, ideas or venues of productivity, so they delegate and communicate and call meetings and push ideas and agendas that only serve to give them the "upper hand" when its promotion time.

Just check out Facebooks internal network, where you gotta play nice and play politics or you will be look down on as "not having community spirit".

Re: “User Engagement” Is Code for “Addiction”

#337

Post by quenix »

cush wrote: post #335
montenegrohugo wrote: post #8

I'd add that algorithmic feeds are another part of the triad (quartet?), and probably the worst offender. Personalized addictive content is on the rise (tiktok, YouTube, even Facebook and Twitter curate your newsfeed "for you" ), and these ml-determined feeds drive engagement to the highest possible levels, leading to an incredible waste of time, a distorted world view (mostly the posts with the highest engagement wi…

Tiktok's algorithm is on a completely other level.

I’ve used TikTok, and the way its algorithm made me feel is unparalleled. It’s truly something else. I’m not sure how it does it, but it’s one of the only apps where one truly feels they have a live being behind the screen watching and tweaking the recommendations. It’s fluid, responds almost immediately, and feels like it knows everything about how I consume the content. Tiktok must employ some smart statisticians.

Re: “User Engagement” Is Code for “Addiction”

#338

Post by IQunder130 »

mywittyname wrote: post #134
ramphastidae wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who made the decision that this person's views should be widely scrutinized? This is a serious stretch. The algo didn’t force that person to sign up and post their every ignorant thought on a public forum. People can just put down their phones but they love the attention. Individuals are just as guilty for giving power over themselves to social media.

If anything, the next generation of people will learn to avoid online polarized engagement using their own identities. They will create these curated and sterile personas under their real name while using a nom de plume for actual content. I'm kind of surprised that aliases have not widely taken off already. But I suppose the consequences are not very severe yet.

Aliases used to be the default before the social media revolution, though. If anything the trend has been decidedly in the other direction - using one's real name was seen as irresponsible just 15 years ago, whereas now it seems the average internet user is not even aware pseudonymity is an option.

Re: “User Engagement” Is Code for “Addiction”

#339

Post by IQunder130 »

quenix wrote: post #337
cush wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tiktok's algorithm is on a completely other level.

I’ve used TikTok, and the way its algorithm made me feel is unparalleled. It’s truly something else. I’m not sure how it does it, but it’s one of the only apps where one truly feels they have a live being behind the screen watching and tweaking the recommendations. It’s fluid, responds almost immediately, and feels like it knows everything about how I consume the content. Tiktok must employ some smart statisticians.

Smart statisticians or the next best thing - the kitchen sink black box method

Re: “User Engagement” Is Code for “Addiction”

#340

Post by namelessone »

IQunder130 wrote: post #339
quenix wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve used TikTok, and the way its algorithm made me feel is unparalleled. It’s truly something else. I’m not sure how it does it, but it’s one of the only apps where one truly feels they have a live being behind the screen watching and tweaking the recommendations. It’s fluid, responds almost immediately, and feels like it knows everything about how I consume the content. Tiktok must employ some smart statisticians.

Smart statisticians or the next best thing - the kitchen sink black box method

what method is that?
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