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Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

reuters.com

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Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#331

Post by tehjoker »

scrollaway wrote: post #5

Israel feels like the only nation taking the importance and urgency of vaccination seriously. Here in Europe, articles are coming out complaining that the slow vaccination could be harming the economy which, well, fucking duh. ( https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/154626/c... ) Fast rollout. Involve pharmacies. Involve the army. Distribute widely and efficiently. Prepare for months before the vaccine…

Except for Palestinians of course where they refuse their legal duties as an occupying power to render medical aid.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/03/israel-giving-5000-vaccine-d...

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#332

Post by runako »

EvgeniyZh wrote: post #304
runako wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> case fatality rate is approximately the same If you vaccinate more people, you would expect that the cases that present at a physician will be selected to be the most severe. If the vaccine reduces most infections to very mild or asymptomatic cases, they will not be counted in the statistics at all. So it would make sense that introducing a broadly effective vaccine would increase the case fatality rate. (You would…

> If you vaccinate more people, you would expect that the cases that present at a physician will be selected to be the most severe. Most of cases both before and after vaccinations are not severe. Moreover, the share of severe cases seems to stay the same or even increase ( https://datadashboard.health.gov.il/COVID-19/general , I hope it can be google-translated or something). As I explained in other reply ( https://…

> the share of severe cases seems to stay the same or even increase

I can't read the dashboard, but as I indicated this is what you would expect if you have a vaccine that broadly works at controlling the most severe forms of the disease. Vaccinated people whose infections manifest as nothing or a day or two of lethargy are not going to get counted in the statistics.

> I expected change in fatality rate

your expected change in the fatality rate needs to take into account that the real-world denominator has changed and that will not be apparent if you just divide number of fatalities by number of cases. (Because vaccinated people may be more likely to be asymptomatic, and we expect them to not get sick enough to ever present as a case.)

It's important to look at the number of people hospitalized or dying.

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#333

Post by jb775 »

it_robot wrote: post #189
lucd wrote: post #104

Here is some chart showing vaccination effect on hospitalization for severe forms. Very telling. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/israel-severe-hospitaliza...

ehhhh im not sure how you are reading this but the chart looks quite bad

Obviously anecdotal, but my wife is a nurse and she's been hearing some frightening things about the vaccine. Young people getting it are basically bed-ridden for days and are calling out of work...one lady couldn't lift her arm anymore and is now getting physical therapy...one guy went out to dinner with his family after getting it and had complete memory loss of the entire dinner.

At what point does common sense risk to reward ratio come into play for young people?

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#334

Post by heyuji78 »

Does the data only show that those individuals do not develop symptoms, but can potentially spread the virus to non-vaccinated individuals? Or does the 94% drop in symptomatic infections also means that those individuals can no longer spread the virus to others?

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#335

Post by greenonions »

tehjoker wrote: post #331
scrollaway wrote: post #5

Israel feels like the only nation taking the importance and urgency of vaccination seriously. Here in Europe, articles are coming out complaining that the slow vaccination could be harming the economy which, well, fucking duh. ( https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/154626/c... ) Fast rollout. Involve pharmacies. Involve the army. Distribute widely and efficiently. Prepare for months before the vaccine…

Except for Palestinians of course where they refuse their legal duties as an occupying power to render medical aid. https://www.cnbc.com/2021/02/03/israel-giving-5000-vaccine-d...

Since when has 'law' applied to Israeli behavior in Palestine?

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#336

Post by tguvot »

underdeserver wrote: post #84
scrollaway wrote: post #5

Israel feels like the only nation taking the importance and urgency of vaccination seriously. Here in Europe, articles are coming out complaining that the slow vaccination could be harming the economy which, well, fucking duh. ( https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/154626/c... ) Fast rollout. Involve pharmacies. Involve the army. Distribute widely and efficiently. Prepare for months before the vaccine…

Israel had a very good starting point - the 4 mandatory healthcare providers (Clalit, Maccabi, Leumit, Meukhedet), who due to a voucher system could only compete on service. They had every interest to digitize and improve efficiency over the past decade or so. That's why they did digitize - every resident has a digital medical file, and healthcare providers can easily track and report back to Pfizer and the ministry…

healthcare providers in Israel have centralized systems/databases for at least 20 if not 30 years the only "digitization" over past decade, it's shiny websites.

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#337

Post by chmod600 »

bodyfour wrote: post #213
Robin_Message wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU approved the vaccines over a month later IIRC, and Germany and France won't use the easy to distribute vaccine (astraveneca) in over 65s, the major target group. So I'm not sure it's only a supply issue.

The issue with the EMA approval date is a red herring, in my opinion. Unfortunately it gets given a lot of attention (especially in the UK press) even by organisations that should know better. The most important thing to remember is that both the UK and EU pre-paid for AZ to manufacture their vaccine pre-approval. The date of regulatory approval and the manufacturing schedule are supposed to be completely decoupled.…

The EU thinks it should be treated equivalently, but what do the contracts actually say? If the contract is weaker than the UK one, then that could be called an EU screwup.

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#338

Post by [deleted] »

aphextron wrote: post #278
amitport wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Israel. There a three big points to make: 1 - There is a delay. While now we have more and more vaccinated people, much of the current cases in the hospital got infected before that. 2 - It changes from community to community but in general we have many people that are really not "disciplined". Either they believe coronovirus does not exist or it won't get them or that god will save them or the herd immunit…

> While in some places you have 70% in other communities you have 2%. (and those with 2% act like there's no coronavirus, see point 2) I've come to notice this over the last year. We now effectively live in two completely diverged realities. In one, coronavirus is a serious danger that affects our behavior and dominates every aspect of life, where we follow the news of new vaccines and declining case numbers with gra…

[deleted]

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#339

Post by tguvot »

eladFrizi wrote: post #58
mytailorisrich wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel is in a continuous state of war. It is both prepared and aware that a pandemic can disrupt your defences enough to make you an easy target. I think this played a big role in their response.

Israel has competition between several private healthcare providers. That fact makes them agile and efficient than most places in the world (e.g. Britain's NHS ). The army has nothing to do with the vaccine rollout.

My mother got injected by combat medic in uniforms. You can count it as involvement in rollout

Re: Israeli study finds 94% drop in symptomatic Covid-19 cases with Pfizer vaccine

#340

Post by Daho0n »

pid_0 wrote: post #319
scrollaway wrote: post #5

Israel feels like the only nation taking the importance and urgency of vaccination seriously. Here in Europe, articles are coming out complaining that the slow vaccination could be harming the economy which, well, fucking duh. ( https://www.brusselstimes.com/news/belgium-all-news/154626/c... ) Fast rollout. Involve pharmacies. Involve the army. Distribute widely and efficiently. Prepare for months before the vaccine…

Why is this getting down voted? Anti-Israel users I guess? Mad that Israel has its shit together?

I didn't vote but I wouldn't upvote a comment saying israel is doing good when they are a occupying power with first and second rate citizens. If they did good they would help the Palestinians first or equally, not let them die off.
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