Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption • Hacker News Board

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#331

Post by slovette » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 2:30 AM UTC

mywittyname wrote: post #264

jiggawatts wrote: post #246

My problem is renting apartments. If you ask the strata or the building managers about charging points in the carpark, they look at you like you're speaking Klingon. This is true of even very recently completed buildings in well-off areas of relatively wealthy western countries. Heck, I just walked past three Teslas in my building's car park, one of which is new and wasn't there last week! Do people... not plan ahead…

A staggering amount of buildings are built to code, and nothing more. If code says that there needs to be 1.5 parking spaces per bedroom for the complex, and the complex has 80 bedrooms, you can bet there will be 120 parking spots. Apartment managers will be dragged kicking and screaming into offering chargers for cars. The best way to get chargers into apartment buildings is going to be a local mandate that they hav…

I disagree with this. Retro installs maybe, yes. But new construction, which I consult heavily on, most of the developers I work with are motivated to install them. They’re revenue sources and attract the kind of tenants they want occupying their new building.

The answer to retro installs (which is always about money anyway) is to not force the hand of property owners, but make the install cost a no brainer with tax rebates and subsidies. Regulation in this regard would just cause negative effects I think, IF it ever passed a public vote (Cali maybe, but not much of the rest of the country).

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#332

Post by brewdad » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 2:31 AM UTC

resonantjacket5 wrote: post #308

mywittyname wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A staggering amount of buildings are built to code, and nothing more. If code says that there needs to be 1.5 parking spaces per bedroom for the complex, and the complex has 80 bedrooms, you can bet there will be 120 parking spots. Apartment managers will be dragged kicking and screaming into offering chargers for cars. The best way to get chargers into apartment buildings is going to be a local mandate that they hav…

A bit off topic, but your example of parking spots probably isn't the best. There's been some calls to lower the kinda ludicrous parking requirements mandated by local authorities

If the efforts to reduce parking requirements succeed, you can be sure that more units will be built with no parking lots at all (Profit$). We are seeing this in Portland where 20 unit apartment buildings are getting built with zero parking (or maybe 10 spaces available for additional rent). The end result, for now at least, is 30-40 more cars parked in the surrounding streets.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#333

Post by 99_00 » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 2:33 AM UTC

Ericson2314 wrote: post #294

99_00 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They'll probably increase as gas motor cars are phased out before the process ever sink too low. Why?

Because cars still have externalities, electrified or not. One just hopes that also increased thee gas tax too so as not to subsidize the ICE cars.

If it's about externalities then there is a ceiling on the taxes. Because combination isn't infinitely bad.

If it's about revenue, taxing combustion engines gets less attractive the smaller the market becomes especially if it's easy to switch.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#334

Post by jussij » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 2:33 AM UTC

athms wrote: post #230

zizee wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent points. Also people seem to be forgetting a large percentage of people will be charging at home overnight, and will largely never need to charge their cars at places other than home.

Maybe for people that live in the suburbs and have disposable income to put in a charging station.

This page suggests that cost can be as low as $750 installed:

https://homeguide.com/costs/electric-car-charging-stations-c...

So in comparison most other typical annual car cost (i.e. repairs, service, running costs etc.) that one off expense is actually quite low.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#335

Post by ndiscussion » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 2:35 AM UTC

brewdad wrote: post #332

resonantjacket5 wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bit off topic, but your example of parking spots probably isn't the best. There's been some calls to lower the kinda ludicrous parking requirements mandated by local authorities

If the efforts to reduce parking requirements succeed, you can be sure that more units will be built with no parking lots at all (Profit$). We are seeing this in Portland where 20 unit apartment buildings are getting built with zero parking (or maybe 10 spaces available for additional rent). The end result, for now at least, is 30-40 more cars parked in the surrounding streets.

Can confirm, I lived in one of those apartments, now I'm very happy in a suburb. It's nice to be able to haul groceries to your place without walking 4 blocks from the car for each load.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#336

Post by brewdad » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 2:36 AM UTC

safog wrote: post #300

jiggawatts wrote: post #246

My problem is renting apartments. If you ask the strata or the building managers about charging points in the carpark, they look at you like you're speaking Klingon. This is true of even very recently completed buildings in well-off areas of relatively wealthy western countries. Heck, I just walked past three Teslas in my building's car park, one of which is new and wasn't there last week! Do people... not plan ahead…

So no one has said this yet, but a lot of people charge their cars at work. I don't know if you're in the US but in my experience this seems like a east coast phenomenon. Lots of electric chargers in bay area, seattle and generally urban areas on the west coast.

"Lots" is still relative though. A large employer near me has something like 50 chargers available in their lot. Of course, on a normal workday, 8,000 cars are being parked there. If 4,000 of those employees start driving electrics, I'm not sure it would be possible to accommodate them.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#337

Post by xsmasher » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 2:44 AM UTC

fortran77 wrote: post #158

lastofthemojito wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of the ~20k used electric cars listed on cars.com, ~3k are $10k or less. Mostly Nissan Leafs and Chevy Sparks, so it depends on your definition of decent :).

A Nissan LEAF is essentially a golf cart, though.

> The car takes 7.5 seconds to reach 60 MPH from a standstill while it is able to run a quarter-mile in 15.8 seconds.

It's not a Mustang, but it's not a golf cart.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#338

Post by derekp7 » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 2:45 AM UTC

jiggawatts wrote: post #246

My problem is renting apartments. If you ask the strata or the building managers about charging points in the carpark, they look at you like you're speaking Klingon. This is true of even very recently completed buildings in well-off areas of relatively wealthy western countries. Heck, I just walked past three Teslas in my building's car park, one of which is new and wasn't there last week! Do people... not plan ahead…

How do people with gas cars handle living in apartments without gasoline lines? They go to a gas station. So the tipping point is when you can take a 300-mile range car and quick-charge it in 5 - 10 minutes. Or when it is profitable enough to have charging ports at destinations (parking garages in the cities, credit-card swipe charging outlets at the mall, chargers at the office, etc).

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#339

Post by davmar » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 2:51 AM UTC

r00fus wrote: post #206

davmar wrote: post #198

a year ago I bought a used 2016 nissan leaf for driving around town for 11k. it's the best car i've ever owned. the design is ugly, the generic silver is hideous, but i'm so emotionally attached to it. i don't drive my really nice (and newer) VW GTI anymore. if you're thinking of getting an EV, you don't have to buy a tesla. the used leafs are just brilliant.

There is a reason that used Leafs are cheaper - the range is reduced due to poor design around thermal management for the battery (no active cooling) so the battery life degrades quickly. Newer (2018+) Leafs fixed this, but if you plan on buying used - make sure the range is confirmed. All that said, I have a cheap EV (2017 Focus) and it's a blast to drive - not a Tesla but still a sleeper.

ah, that's good to know. well, i'll say this, i bought one that only has 80 miles of range anyway since it's pretty much just used for short trips. most of my trips are pretty short so it fits my current needs.

based on my experience, i'd still feel comfortable recommending the used leafs for those who don't need 100+ miles of range per day.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#340

Post by davmar » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 2:51 AM UTC

headmelted wrote: post #209

davmar wrote: post #198

a year ago I bought a used 2016 nissan leaf for driving around town for 11k. it's the best car i've ever owned. the design is ugly, the generic silver is hideous, but i'm so emotionally attached to it. i don't drive my really nice (and newer) VW GTI anymore. if you're thinking of getting an EV, you don't have to buy a tesla. the used leafs are just brilliant.

Same here! I love my frog-looking golf cart of a car. It’s also (between tax incentives and subsidised electricity) been essentially free to own and run - and is worth about the same now as what I paid for it years ago. People need to check out what they’re missing.

leaf owners unite!