Apple's MacBook revival plan: Bring back old features • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple's MacBook revival plan: Bring back old features

#331

Post by jimmaswell » Sun, Jan 17, 2021, 5:06 PM UTC

skohan wrote: post #103

augstein wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you really want or need MagSafe, as I do, you can have it with USB-C only Macs too. There are many magnetic adapters you can buy, the good ones working better than the original MagSafe 2, which easily fell off when using MacBooks on your Lap, due to the connector being T shaped (instead of MagSafe 1 being L shaped, which worked great). I also hope they don‘t bring back SD card readers and big clunky HDMI ports int…

I hope they don't bring back USB-A, but the SD card slot and hdmi have been sorely missed. If you do anything with photography, being able to just plug the card directly into your laptop makes a world of difference. Same thing with walking into any meeting and already knowing you'll be able to plug into a projector if needed, without having to run out and grab a dongle.

Every single peripheral I own is USB-A. I've never seen USB-C-only as the default option on any peripheral in a store or Amazon. Not having USB-A on a laptop is just absurd to me.

Re: Apple's MacBook revival plan: Bring back old features

#332

Post by theonemind » Sun, Jan 17, 2021, 5:08 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #242

alex_c wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean... no? If there’s a trade off involved then the “best” solution is the one that works for me at the cost of inconveniencing others :) I don’t think you’ll convince people to think otherwise.

> If there’s a trade off involved then the “best” solution is the one that works for me at the cost of inconveniencing others :) But Apple aren't just trying to please you - they're trying to please most people. Most people don't use SD cards or USB-A devices anymore. The few who do can still do it using dongles, but the majority get a better laptop without them.

I'd like to see some kind of metric to quantify, but I'd wager most people outside of the Apple ecosystem don't use USB-C at all.

Even within the Apple ecosystem, so many devices exist that use USB-A that I don't think that most people could accept the assertion that "most people don't use USB-A devices" without some kind of proof (like the sort of usability studies Jony Ive must've used for toilet paper at Apple)

Re: Apple's MacBook revival plan: Bring back old features

#333

Post by least » Sun, Jan 17, 2021, 5:09 PM UTC

johnwalkr wrote: post #65

dwaite wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately the back lid is not thick enough for that - even the iPhone isn't thick enough for the iPhone camera system, hence the "bump". I actually wouldn't mind something closer to the iPad + magic keyboard design in a pro macbook, which would have the thickness needed for a significantly better camera.

Why not have a bump in the MacBook screen with a small penalty in trackpad size?

I'd imagine because for the vast majority of people they'd appreciate the trackpad size more and the webcams are already serviceable.

Re: Apple's MacBook revival plan: Bring back old features

#334

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jan 17, 2021, 5:13 PM UTC

derefr wrote: post #308

veridies wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cameras are used for multiple professional purposes, including videography and commercial photography. SD cards are also used in devices such as Zoom audio recorders, which I often use for recording music. Especially right now, I'll loan a Zoom and a nice mic to a musician so that they can record tracks for me remotely. They're also the standard boot device for computers like the Raspberry Pi. Basically, they're a pr…

Regarding videography: professional digital video isn’t usually recorded to SD cards (nor was it ever, ever since “professional digital video” became a thing.) 4K RAW was “too big” when that was what videographers worked with; and 8K RAW is “too big” now. It’s not just that you’ll fill up the card before you’re done a single recording session; often an SD card just won’t have the IO bandwidth to persist writes at the…

[deleted]

Re: Apple's MacBook revival plan: Bring back old features

#335

Post by the_mitsuhiko » Sun, Jan 17, 2021, 5:13 PM UTC

BluSyn wrote: post #14

My controversial hot take-- I have never needed an SD card, and have gone all-in on USB-C. I will be very disappointed if they add back in USB-A/HDMI/SD ports, or remove USB-C charging in favor of proprietary charge port. Sounds like unnecessary feature bloat. Please just do MagSage + USB-C, so I can maintain my one-cable-for-everything, making traveling lighter and simpler. Here's my counter argument to all those th…

I drank the USB-C kool-aid that Apple proposed but it just completely failed in practice. I now carry multiple different (and incompatible) USB-C cables which is in no way better than the magsafe + usb charger I had before.

Three years ago I had one USB-C charging brick with a lightning and USB-A cable and my macbook magsafe brick.

Now I carry a USB-C charging brick with a lightning cable for ipad and iphone, my USB-C charging brick for my macbook pro with a USB-C PD? cable, a USB-C -> USB-C cable for my external SSD (which I cannot use to charge my macbook and the charging cable of my macbook does not work with it). Additionally I have a USB-C to USB-A adapter with a USB mini cable for my headphones and mifi dongle and a separate adapter for HDMI and SD.

I ended up with more cables and I would be in that situation for at least two years more until the last mini USB devices are discarded. But even in that case I end up with multiple USB-C cables just because they are incompatible to each other.

Re: Apple's MacBook revival plan: Bring back old features

#336

Post by zymhan » Sun, Jan 17, 2021, 5:16 PM UTC

Xcelerate wrote: post #265

It's kind of funny, because the last laptop I purchased (and the one I am still using) was Apple's first retina MacBook Pro as soon as it was released in 2012. I've refused to upgrade since then because I felt that all of the newer MacBook's were inferior in some way. Now I'm finally thinking of upgrading again once the 16" is released, and it's sounding like the new laptop will look exactly like mine from 10 years a…

IMO the last model of a generation is usually the best wrt Apple laptops. They usually have more efficient processors that run cooler, at the least.

Re: Apple's MacBook revival plan: Bring back old features

#337

Post by fluffything » Sun, Jan 17, 2021, 5:16 PM UTC

dunmalg wrote: post #271

texasbigdata wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is sort of unreasonable too hot too cold type thinking. If you need a certain price point for a certain feature, why not expand to not limiting your search to only one manufacturer, which seems to be your binding constraint here since you’ve delayed updating 7 years, instead of expecting a manufacturer that has less than 10% of the total market share of an industry to meet you needs?

>why not expand to not limiting your search to only one manufacturer Software. People become accustomed to the closed ecosystem of OSX, which you can't duplicate on others' hardware. This is a key facet of Apple's business model and as GP poster illustrates, it works. Apple can screw up the hardware for 7 years, and GP poster will simply wait for them to come back to doing it right.

More like a computer is a combination of hardware and software.

A different vendor product with cheaper storage can still be a much worse value proposition than my 2012 MacBook Air.

The problem here is that the Parent you are replying to assumes “storage” is the only issue why I haven’t upgraded. That’s an incorrect assumption.

I haven’t upgraded because paying >1000$ should add value over my MacBook Air 2012, yet for me all laptops in the market do not add enough value to justify the cost.

A new MacBook with 1 TB SSD storage sets you over 2000$, but the value just isn’t there.

Everybody’s mom is recommending an M1 these days, yet crappy webcam, support for 1 monitor only, expensive storage, low ram, being 1st gen of apples arm lineage with 1st gen flaws, no MagSafe, ... make it a bad value proposition right now for me compared with my 2012 air which doesn’t have most of these flaws.. sure it is better in many aspects, but it is also much worse in others (eg 1 external monitor support is a deal breaker for me)

Re: Apple's MacBook revival plan: Bring back old features

#338

Post by theonemind » Sun, Jan 17, 2021, 5:17 PM UTC

mindvirus wrote: post #322

Touch Bar is interesting - it's really nifty, but I feel like touch typists hate it, and non touch typists love it. My personal totally long shot wish is that Apple would switch to an ortholinear keyboard (because everyone else will do it too then).

If you never have to look at the keyboard for anything ever, the touchbar takes away an useful row of keys and forces you to start looking down at the keyboard. I can't overstate how annoying someone who never has to look at the keyboard might find this.

https://robservatory.com/the-fundamental-problem-with-the-to...

"The Touch Bar, despite its name, is actually an Eye Bar: It forces your eyes off the screen, down to the Touch Bar, back up to the screen, repeat ad infinitum. There's nothing physical about interacting with the Touch Bar, aside from using your finger: There are no defined button areas, and there's no haptic feedback when you tap something. So you absolutely must look at the Touch Bar to interact with it.

When the new MacBooks were released, I spent about 30 minutes testing a Touch Bar-equipped version in an Apple Store, and this constant moving of my eyes' focus from keyboard to screen to keyboard to screen to…well, you get the idea…was incredibly disruptive. To use the Touch Bar, I'd have to change my focus to the keyboard, then refocus on the screen, taking time to find my active window and locate the mouse cursor. This did not make for a pleasant user experience."

Re: Apple's MacBook revival plan: Bring back old features

#339

Post by chrisseaton » Sun, Jan 17, 2021, 5:18 PM UTC

theonemind wrote: post #332

chrisseaton wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If there’s a trade off involved then the “best” solution is the one that works for me at the cost of inconveniencing others :) But Apple aren't just trying to please you - they're trying to please most people. Most people don't use SD cards or USB-A devices anymore. The few who do can still do it using dongles, but the majority get a better laptop without them.

I'd like to see some kind of metric to quantify, but I'd wager most people outside of the Apple ecosystem don't use USB-C at all . Even within the Apple ecosystem, so many devices exist that use USB-A that I don't think that most people could accept the assertion that "most people don't use USB-A devices" without some kind of proof (like the sort of usability studies Jony Ive must've used for toilet paper at Apple)

> I'd wager most people outside of the Apple ecosystem don't use USB-C at all

But almost all the Android phones are USB-C aren't they?

Other manufacturers' laptops are also often USB-C for charging. And other brands of things like wireless headphones. Apple uses it less than other brands, as they still have Lightning in many places.

Re: Apple's MacBook revival plan: Bring back old features

#340

Post by JohnBooty » Sun, Jan 17, 2021, 5:19 PM UTC

p_l wrote: post #260

jimnotgym wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since 2015 we have had all this clutter in the meeting rooms with different chargers, adaptors for monitors, projectors etc. In fact every mac user I know has a little hub to run everything! I'm currently using a Thinkpad and I have never felt that I had too many ports! I don't carry any adaptors.

on site at a client fresh after they started upgrading people to USB-C/thunderbolt MBPs/Airs... Very quickly meetings started with question of "who has a laptop with real HDMI/DisplayPort? We would like to start in 15s instead of 15 minutes of fighting with dongles..."

    Very quickly meetings started with question of 
    "who has a laptop with real HDMI/DisplayPort? 
    We would like to start in 15s instead of 15 
    minutes of fighting with dongles..."

I don't understand this.

There are plenty of arguments against against going all-in on USB-C and forcing people to buy/carry multiple dongles. I don't like dongles myself! I still use a (pre-USB C) 2015 MacBook Pro, partially for that reason. I greatly prefer common ports such as HDMI to be built right into the laptop.

But "15 minutes of fighting with dongles?" Even if there's some comic exaggeration here, I don't understand.

Of all my gripes with Mac laptop dongles, "fighting" with them is not on the list. They are as plug and play as it gets. No drivers, etc... I hate carrying them but they're not exactly difficult to use.

The only way I can imagine people "fighting" with dongles is if they were nontechnical users who had difficulties simply plugging a cable in.