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Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

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Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#331

Post by moe »

DasIch wrote: post #267
wheels wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I meant on the German and US systems is that they're both pay-in-get-something out. Germans pay about double for social security, so it's not a huge surprise that the benefits are higher. My point was not that Germans do not get more benefits, but that's it's not a large factor in contrasting wages. (i.e. if American professionals put the money into a 401k that would go into the required German pension funding,…

That time limit is two years. After that you get "Hartz IV" unless you still have enough money to live by. Sure if that happens you may have to drastically change your lifestyle but if you are well educated getting a job in under two years should be achievable.

The timelimit is actually one year or less for most people. You only get 2 years when you're older than 58.

For anyone else it depends on how long you've been employed before applying for unemployment support. Been employed for longer than 24mo? You get 12mo support. Been employed for only 12mo? Then you get only 6mo of support.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#332

Post by dmm »

camiller wrote: post #314
dmm wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And at the end of that 20 years you own a piece of property. Or you could take that down payment and invest it. Will that property appreciate more than the return you can get for your money? Don't forget about property taxes too. Renting gives you greater mobility too, which can be used to maximize income.

Also don't forget the home mortgage deduction on the income tax, which once you are itemizing opens the door to a whole host of other deductions. My effective federal tax rate this year was 4.6%, back when I was renting I could not have accomplished that.

True, but buying a house now is betting that that tax deduction is going to exist for the next 20 years. The financial situation of the US is insane. The next 20 years aren't going to look anything like the last 40.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#333

Post by pnathan »

hollerith wrote: post #240
pnathan wrote: post #101

I would not mind a split between paid and unpaid vacation. I see no reason (unless contractually specified) why a company should pay me for not working. I don't live to work. I work to live.

>I see no reason (unless contractually specified) why a company should pay me for not working. Because you probably do not get a charge out of getting something for nothing -- but many do.

Well, if someone wants to give me something for nothing, I'll take it. :D Please don't get me wrong. Donations are definitely accepted!

But I want to create win-win situations with my business relationships. If I am working for a company, they are getting my product, I am getting money (possibly benefits). If I am not working, e.g., I am dorking around in Mexico for a month on vacation, the company is not netting value out of me, and if they are paying me, that's a drain on their resources. I want my employer to be awesome, because as a member of that company, the awesomeness trickles down. :-)

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#334

Post by ugh »

michaelpinto wrote: post #307
ugh wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That can’t be true. Bavarian schools, for example, have a five-week summer vacation this year and additionally eight weeks of vacation spread over the whole year (one week in spring and autumn, two weeks for Easter, Pentecost and Christmas). There are also quite a few state and federal holidays but, as you can see, vacations are already clustered around those holidays. I think there are maybe two or three additional…

It's been a long time for me, but in the US I recall that it covers part of June, July and August — so that has to be at least over 8 weeks. Although maybe the idea that our kids get a longer Summer break is part of the the anti-vacation propaganda?

Yes, and? Are five weeks no vacation or what? This is what you said (just to remind you): “[We] have Summer vacation for schools (unlike the rest of the world).”

That’s blatantly untrue.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#335

Post by hmottestad »

camiller wrote: post #295
hmottestad wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a student I took time off from class and enjoyed 2 weeks skiing is switzerland, then another 2 weeks in the sun in Uruguay. All while it was -20C at home in Norway. I usually end up working during my normal vacations though, so last summer I had 2 weeks off. One of the perks I would probably want in my contract when I start working is the ability to take up to 4 weeks of unpaid leave and being able to take all my…

The sick days part varies by employer. At a previous employer it was 10 sick days in addition to your vacation days, and unused sick days accumulated from one year to the next. When my son was born 8 week early with my wife in the hospital 2.5 weeks before that, I had accumulated enough sick time that I could take 11 weeks off to spend at the hospital (Caleb spent 25 days in neonatal intensive care) and at home after…

What about if you were sick and your doctor said you had to stay home?

In Norway we can take up to 3 consecutive days off due to illness 4 times during 12 months. If you work in an extra exposed environment (kindergarten, old people's home) you have more days. If you need more than that, you have to see a doctor. The doctor can give you up to 12 months of leave. During this period the state refunds your employer for your wages (after 14 days or so). Under no circumstances can you be fired due to your illness, and if you can not return to your position your employer will need to provide a new position. This of course can be very bad for small companies and start-ups. So they tend to use temporary employment to circumvent these issues, though there is a limit as to how long you can employ someone temporarily.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#336

Post by cdavid »

wheels wrote: post #201
chrisaycock wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And not to mention: * Healthcare - Health insurance is often a luxury in America. The elderly have Medicare, but there is (currently) no safety for most citizens. * Public transportation - Many US cities don't have adequate bus service. Just anyone who lives outside NYC or a college town will need a car.

You guys are doing it again -- idealizing the other side of the fence as if everything was all rainbows and unicorns in Europe. In Germany and many European countries, you pay for healthcare and it costs a lot -- you simply don't have the option of not having healthcare and the cost is proportional to your income rather than your health condition. Also note that the employee caries the full cost of health insurance a…

The employee caries the cost of insurance, tax, etc... in every country: that's the tax incidence concept (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_incidence).

The fact that from an administrative POV, some part is split between the employee and employer is just that: an administrative convention, but don't be fooled by it.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#337

Post by notJim »

Silhouette wrote: post #88

The thing I find most interesting about this discussion is that we have not yet seen anyone from the US proudly claiming that by working harder they are more productive than the rest of us. I have seen similar conversations several times on various on-line forums in the past, and there was always a defensive/proud mindset from a significant group, even as those of us outside the US wondered if they realised how much…

Someone did actually make (roughly) that point[1], but it was since deleted.

[1]: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2576325 is the thread that was sparked by this comment.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#338

Post by cdavid »

dennisgorelik wrote: post #309
wheels wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You guys are doing it again -- idealizing the other side of the fence as if everything was all rainbows and unicorns in Europe. In Germany and many European countries, you pay for healthcare and it costs a lot -- you simply don't have the option of not having healthcare and the cost is proportional to your income rather than your health condition. Also note that the employee caries the full cost of health insurance a…

Cost of living in Europe is higher than in the US. Consider cost of gasoline and real estate. It's just that Europeans have lower income, so they do not buy things that wealthier Americans do. Europeans on average are driving smaller and older cars, they drive less. Other things you mentioned - Europeans are buying less gadgets. Who's making the right choice is hard to say. Does larger house worth more than long vaca…

Generalizations like Europe is more expensive than the US make no sense. Where in Europe, where in the US ? There is quite a difference between cost of living in London, Paris and Munich already, and the cost of living in the Bay Area is not the same as Austin.

Even within a given country, the cost of living is very spread out (London and Paris are extremely expensive compared to the average of their respective country for example).

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#339

Post by nfriedly »

k3dz wrote: post #105
joss82 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here it is, and it's awesome: http://www.expatsoftware.com/articles/2007/02/two-weeks-vaca...

you can do that only if you are a senior dev.. what do junior devs, recent college grads do?

I took the month of August off from my software dev job between my freshmen and sophomore years of college. That was in addition to ~3 weeks of other vacation time spread throughout that year. I spent the month traveling and volunteering. It was unpaid, but my expenses were pretty low at the time and I had enough in savings to get by just fine. I highly recommend it.

Re: Why is America the 'no-vacation nation'?

#340

Post by michaelchisari »

steauengeglase wrote: post #312
chrismealy wrote: post #15

Nobody has mentioned the obvious: weak unions.

I have a feeling that there is a bit more to it than that. In America it is fairly common for employers tack on a little more vacation time every year for both salary and hourly employees. It isn't too terribly odd to have 1 to 1.5 months off a year after working for someone for 5 to 10 years, but Americans seldom stay at the same job for very long. Either you go off for greener pastures, quit out of frustration, get…

It isn't too terribly odd to have 1 to 1.5 months off a year after working for someone for 5 to 10 years

I would actually say that that's very odd, except in very specialized fields.

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