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China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

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Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#331

Post by eternalban »

pas wrote: post #313
eternalban wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jack Ma is a member of the Communist Party of China. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-alibaba-jack-ma-idUSKCN1N... This is a classic power struggle between ideological and technocratic elements. Jack Ma vs Xi Jinping. Jack Ma, a communist party member, challenged party Chairman. As we can dispense with the notion that Jack Ma lacks the necessary wits, the actual interesting question is why did Jack Ma think it oppo…

There are 91 million members of the CCP. In a country that counts more than 1 billion inhabitants. It's laughably far from representative. But the actual rubber stamper voting group is about 3000 people. However, since there was never any real independent and strong opposition (the Kuomintang retreated to Taiwan) the only power struggles were very much about succession, and again that's like a minor clash in a royal…

How many Americans are members of D or R party organizations?

By membership I do -not- mean registration to vote for a party; meaningful participation in the political organization, from local office, all the way to national committee level, and of course actual elected and political appointments.

I don't have the numbers but wouldn't surprise me if it turned out to be an even smaller fraction of total population than the Chinese single party.

Roughly take US as 1/3 of population of China, and then test expectation that 91/3 => ~30,000,000 politically active members of political organizations in US. Again, I don't have the numbers, but I would be shocked if actual party members in US even reached the 1 million mark, much less 30 million people. For fairness, let's throw in 18 million Americans that belong to unions. Let's make it 20 millions in total. That's still less than the required 30 million politically organized Americans to be at par with CCP.

[but p.s. /g! If we throw in the 18 million American millionaires, then we have a system that is a bit more representative than the CCP]

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#332

Post by justicezyx »

baybal2 wrote: post #294
justicezyx wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you read the article I posted, you'll see that is not a positive report on the campaign. You shall understand that the CCP model is bound to such lipstick cover-up. But I firmly support the whole idea of eliminating poverty with the accumulated wealth. Essentially a form of compensation by transferring some wealth.

> But I firmly support the whole idea of eliminating poverty with the accumulated wealth. Essentially a form of compensation by transferring some wealth. No wealth ever changed hands. PM Li's saying of 600m Chinese still living on CNY1000 a month is 100% real. Why would bolos would in their sane mind empower their enemies, by transfering wealth to them?

Read the la times report, every year, the government spent 30billion plus on relevant infrastructure.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#333

Post by onethought »

brainfish wrote: post #326
onethought wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over in the land of the free. Are the police not trawling through Facebook imagery and chat messages to arrest the “insurrectionists”? Is the spying ok when it’s sponsored by Facebook?

Oh, is today Whataboutism day?

The racism/double standard (which is what it is) hurled at china for things that everyone is doing, but it's some how bad in china, then excusing pointing this out as "whataboutism" is pretty disgusting.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#334

Post by agumonkey »

saiya-jin wrote: post #236
agumonkey wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's odd to experience (afar) what the cold war era people were fearing.

Fearing? They wouldn't be even allowed to grow any business, forbidden by state. This is socialism&capitalism hybrid, seemingly taking the worst out of both. Merciless efficiency (at least for the goals of those in helm, which might not align with long term economic success), not slowed down by some pesky human rights

I meant seeing a big state taking control like russia did post ww2 (probably fueling the us/russia feud) but I only read in books.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#335

Post by blisterpeanuts »

onethought wrote: post #297
blisterpeanuts wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is essentially the thesis of American foreign policy in Asia since the 1980s. The results have been mixed; yes, they have a huge, prosperous middle class now, yet the government remains about as authoritarian as it ever was. Now, with technology, in fact things are getting worse. Everyone is required to have a cell phone, everyone is spied upon, a "social score" is maintained and if your score dips below a certa…

Over in the land of the free. Are the police not trawling through Facebook imagery and chat messages to arrest the “insurrectionists”? Is the spying ok when it’s sponsored by Facebook?

Well, I don't disagree with you. We're becoming more like China every day. Social scoring, speech codes, nonpersons, government-inspired mob violence.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#336

Post by star-trek-fleet »

blackrock wrote: post #284
winrid wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

996 is no joke. Visiting friends in China, after dinner we went back to our hotel. They went back to work. They were in tech.

I hope they’re getting lucrative stock options to make their 996 worth it.

Nah, the employees in Chinese startups get very little, my impression is about 10% of their counterparts in Silicon Valley.

Chinese capitalism is cut-throat. I really think that will become the major risk of Chinese economy.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#337

Post by Ericson2314 »

bobthepanda wrote: post #299
Ericson2314 wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would think this is actually good for them, as more internal demand relative to supply will help further transition away from exports, and also help increases their productivity (at least if they make working hours less insane).

more internal demand but few people working is basically going to increase debt significantly, leave seniors in abject poverty, or some combination of the two. And possibly massive deflation as well since old people are on fixed incomes and don't spend too much.

I thought Chinese household debt was absurdly low, but I guess that's changed.

Still, I would prefer to "quotient out the money", and say either the demand is met or it isn't? To the extent it is met, perhaps there are imports of material goods or domestic labor (nurses?)

I don't think it makes sense to worry about "domestic debt" in the same way, given the non-liberal political economy. Of course that doesn't mean there aren't limits, but the limits maybe would take the form of e.g. rising discontent and decreased productivity if it feels like an old-people-focused service economy with nothing in it for the workers.

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#338

Post by cbozeman »

kennywinker wrote: post #270
cbozeman wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Did Jack Ma think he was going to tell the CCP how it is? Yes, I did actually. There's every reason to believe that the people installed to run Alibaba / Ant after Jack gets sent off to "re-education camp" will be unable to propel it to further heights. Stagnation is likely as good as it'll get and there's every reason to believe it'll be run into the ground eventually. I see Jack Ma as a sort of Chinese Elon Musk…

Like how Apple has crashed and burnt since Steve Jobs' death? Oh... wait, their stock is up 11x and their revenue is up 2.5x. Seems like things are actually going fine. Maybe we attribute the success of companies almost entirely to the one man at the top, instead of to the thousands of workers who make up the company.

Apple wouldn't exist without a great man to have led it back from, quite literally, the brink of death...

Or did you forget where Apple was when Gil Amelio got ousted for Steve to come back?

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#339

Post by pedrosorio »

euix wrote: post #322
jcytong wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: How does one get educated about modern China? (I'm Chinese but mostly Western educated) Having seen my grandparents/parents/relatives escaping communist China and now my generation escaping HK, it has heavily influenced me on how even people who identified as Chinese and hoping for democracy and freedom for their own cousins in China are being played and lied to for multiple decades. My people in HK…

Before covid I would have just said go visit China and travel the country. I don't think westerners really understand China as cliched as that sounds. If you add up all the western countries together + their westernized protecterates/allies, Japan, SK, Taiwan. You would only get half the population of China. Think of the scale of that, your internal market is literally twice the size of the entire western market. Tha…

> You would only get half the population of China.

The population of the PRC is 1.4 billion people.

The population of NATO countries is 941 million [0]

The population of Japan, South Korean and Australia combined exceeds 200 million.

That's 1.14 billion without including any other "protectorates". Far exceeding half of 1.4

[0] https://www.worlddata.info/alliances/nato-north-atlantic-tre...

Re: China CCP to Nationalize Jack Ma's Alibaba and Ant Group – Report

#340

Post by pishpash »

runlevel1 wrote: post #221
sudosysgen wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is not really much of a reason to believe this. Economically successful nationalization do happen. The main reason why the CCP is considering nationalizing Ant Financial is because their economists are afraid of the negative economic impacts it may have. The same thing happened in my province, where the power generation industry was nationalized for economic reasons and ended up being a massive economic advanta…

Are there success stories apart from utilities and companies involved in the exploitation natural resources?

Banking, healthcare, education are considered public goods by some.
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