‘YouTube recommendations are toxic,’ says dev who worked on the algorithm (2019) • Hacker News Board

Re: ‘YouTube recommendations are toxic,’ says dev who worked on the algorithm (2019)

#331

Post by nitrogen » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 9:58 PM UTC

monkeypizza wrote: post #253

shawnz wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can also click the three dots icon next to the video thumbnail of recommendations and select "Not interested"

Every few days if you notice the algo giving too many fast-food style videos, it's worth it to aggressively use this to unfollow all these topics. Miraculously, the next time you refresh your feed, all those old interesting topics you used to be into will come back. Overall the algo is very very recency-influenced. You can watch videos from a niche interest for a year straight, but if you then spend a week watching n…

I wish the algo would instead notice that I always watch every video from particular channels that only publish rarely. I also publish my own videos, and after a long gap without publishing my new videos get no views unless I pay for ads or promote them outside of YT, and even my family members who are only subscribed to my channel don't get my videos recommended.

Re: ‘YouTube recommendations are toxic,’ says dev who worked on the algorithm (2019)

#332

Post by spoopyskelly » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 10:01 PM UTC

tokamak-teapot wrote: post #199

nobleach wrote: post #115

At the end of 2016, I was bored and decided to watch a flat earth video. I spent a few evenings going down that conspiracy rabbit-hole as it was completely fascinating. (I couldn't tell if these folks were expertly trolling, or if they were serious). Once I was back to reality (2017) I was done wanting to see anything conspiracy related. It took a year for that stuff to disappear from my right-hand column. I just kep…

I watched some of one video whose content would be described by half of the US as political opinion and protected speech. It was mainly misogyny and incitement to racial hatred. YT’s algorithm seemed to think that I needed to keep being exposed to this, so filled my recommendations with more. Like the parent, it has taken over a year of me choosing ‘not interested’ for YT to stop trying to persuade me that I should h…

I watched some of one video whose content would be described as a cute cat video. It was mainly cats playing around.

YT’s algorithm seemed to think that I needed to keep being exposed to this, so filled my recommendations with more cats.

Like the parent, it has taken over a year of me choosing ‘not interested’ for YT to stop trying to persuade me that I should like most cats and actively seek to pet furry critters who are different from me.

I’m not sure how it works but I am mad about it.

Re: ‘YouTube recommendations are toxic,’ says dev who worked on the algorithm (2019)

#333

Post by dang » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 10:07 PM UTC

tmakks wrote: post #55

> Chaslot noted that divisive and sensational content is often recommended widely: conspiracy theories, fake news, flat-Earther videos Not true at all. In many countries, content from Corona-deniers is instantly removed, even in live streams, and their creators are banned for 1 or 2 weeks. Edit: Downvoters, please just comment

Could you please stop breaking the site guidelines? You've been doing it a lot, I'm afraid. They ask: "Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: ‘YouTube recommendations are toxic,’ says dev who worked on the algorithm (2019)

#334

Post by _0ffh » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 10:12 PM UTC

jessriedel wrote: post #207

_0ffh wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't use the "watch later" feature anymore. It's always a bit irritating when you want to catch up on the list only to find that a video has been removed in the mean time. So I switched to archiving using youtube-dl. Also nice to have a few backup videos in case of an internet outage.

This is conceivable to me, bit I've never had this happen. What sort of videos would be removed that you actually wanted to watch?

Apart from what has already been mentioned, stuff also gets copyright-struck. Sometimes for ridiculously minor infractions. Sometimes for no real infraction at all.

Additionally, there are the vague and ever-changing terms of service.

Also, people sometimes take stuff down themselves. Take the JRE, for a recent and rather prominent example.

Re: ‘YouTube recommendations are toxic,’ says dev who worked on the algorithm (2019)

#335

Post by lobocinza » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 10:27 PM UTC

margo209320 wrote: post #216

qwerty456127 wrote: post #60

For me YouTube recommendations are not toxic, they are so amazing I some times wonder how comes the world around is not heaven when everybody has free access to this. That's because I always watch high-quality educational content and some beautiful comforting and inspiring music. So for me YouTube is a fountain of knowledge, visual and musical aesthetics etc. Every day I get inspiration, healthy kind of fun and learn…

The main advantage of using YouTube with an account, is being able to see what's new from all your subscriptions. To get rid of the annoying stuff, I added this to my uBlock Origin filters: www.youtube.com###comments www.youtube.com###related www.youtube.com##.ytp-show-tiles.videowall-endscreen.ytp-player-content.html5-endscreen This of course also eliminates ads.

You can follow channels through RSS.

Re: ‘YouTube recommendations are toxic,’ says dev who worked on the algorithm (2019)

#336

Post by goatcode » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 10:45 PM UTC

> We’ve designed our systems to help ensure that content from more authoritative sources is surfaced prominently in search results

So Google also doesn't necessarily recommend what the user wants.

Re: ‘YouTube recommendations are toxic,’ says dev who worked on the algorithm (2019)

#337

Post by pedro1976 » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 10:49 PM UTC

kibwen wrote: post #135

After realizing that I would sometimes spend hours caught in the YouTube recommendation trap--to the detriment of my sleep, my work, my hobbies, my family--I've taken steps to manage my borderline addiction to YouTube. Prior to this I'd tried blocking it entirely, but the problem is that there is sometimes valuable educational content that I benefit from watching (even if only to briefly unwind after a day of work).…

I feed you. Can you share some of your educational channels?

Re: ‘YouTube recommendations are toxic,’ says dev who worked on the algorithm (2019)

#338

Post by klmadfejno » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 10:51 PM UTC

I like to have video game speed runs in the background every now and then. Now my suggestions are full of videos with outraged titles about how someone CHEATED in a mario speed run. EXPOSED. LIAR. PATHETIC CHEATER PRETENDS TO BE BLINDFOLDED.

ffs

Re: ‘YouTube recommendations are toxic,’ says dev who worked on the algorithm (2019)

#339

Post by bArray » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 11:14 PM UTC

wasdfff wrote: post #140

bArray wrote: post #90

The recommendations are now almost completely inescapable if you want to continue using their service. They recently did away with email notifications for new content [1] and now the RSS export feature for subscriptions has been removed [2]. I refuse to interface with their algorithm, so I've begun hunting down alternative video hosts and the personal sites of the creators I can find and am preparing to leave their p…

Weird, my RSS feeds have been unaffected.

They are for now, but if they have removed the export button you can guarantee the RSS will be killed off soon.

Re: ‘YouTube recommendations are toxic,’ says dev who worked on the algorithm (2019)

#340

Post by vl » Wed, Dec 23, 2020, 11:15 PM UTC

disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #321

vl wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, article is incorrect: for a long time now YT optimizes recommendations not for watch time, but for life-time engagement. YT probably has the most advanced QT ML in the world. Second, it’s trivial to re-adjust recommendations: go to history and delete everything you didn’t like, and recommendations instantly will become much better.

> First of all, article is incorrect: for a long time now YT optimizes recommendations not for watch time, but for life-time engagement. YT probably has the most advanced QT ML in the world. Lifetime engagement is a function of watch time, right?

No, it turns that if you optimize for immediate watch time, people watch a lot at once and then didn’t return. It’s more profitable if people watch a little bit everyday for the rest of their life.