CD Projekt Conference Call with the Management Board [pdf] (Dec 14) • Hacker News Board

Re: CD Projekt Conference Call with the Management Board [pdf] (Dec 14)

#331

Post by krainboltgreene » Wed, Dec 16, 2020, 4:12 AM UTC

frakkingcylons wrote: post #108

pavlov wrote: post #7

This company has probably the shittiest gamified bonus system that I've ever heard of: "CDPR leaders would hand out tokens every month to staffers who went above and beyond, and those tokens were supposed to be transferrable into bonuses if the game met “certain criteria, like critical acclaim and a timely release,” according to the report." [1] Get paid in "crunch mode experience points" handed out by middle manager…

CDPR is paying their staff the full bonus for Cyberpunk 2077 due to the circumstances of the release. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-12-11/cd-projek...

I heard the bonuses were paid out prior to the last release bump, so they got much less than they could have.

Re: CD Projekt Conference Call with the Management Board [pdf] (Dec 14)

#332

Post by elgatonegro » Wed, Dec 16, 2020, 4:12 AM UTC

Jack000 wrote: post #328

elgatonegro wrote: post #117

I completed it twice -more out of boredom and getting my money's worth than actual enjoyment- and my biggest complaint is that the game is totally dumb and a complete waste of time to those more philosophically inclined. It feels like a throwback to the dumbest action games of the 90s: here's a main story and a bunch of quests that you'll be completing on railtracks. Your choices don't really matter, the world is emp…

It doesn't sound like you gave it much of a chance tbh. If you only play the main quests it might be possible to do 2 playthroughs since launch. I'm at 43h in and haven't finished the first playthrough yet, on normal difficulty. The gameplay is pretty much identical to w3, which is what I expected going in. If you expected more than that you were bound to be disappointed.

It took me around 20 hours to finish it the first time. Second time was a lot faster since I was essentially playing the same game and I could fly through the same situations and dialogs. It's a hollow experience, pretty but zero substance.

I know there are additional endings and side quests, but the problem is that game has no depth whatsoever so I'm not exactly motivated to spend more time. It's mindless action with a few variations on the quests that keep repeating themselves. After playing the game for a few hours, the shallowness and superficiality of it all starts weighing on you.

Re: CD Projekt Conference Call with the Management Board [pdf] (Dec 14)

#333

Post by SeanBoocock » Wed, Dec 16, 2020, 4:13 AM UTC

munk-a wrote: post #194

pavlov wrote: post #7

This company has probably the shittiest gamified bonus system that I've ever heard of: "CDPR leaders would hand out tokens every month to staffers who went above and beyond, and those tokens were supposed to be transferrable into bonuses if the game met “certain criteria, like critical acclaim and a timely release,” according to the report." [1] Get paid in "crunch mode experience points" handed out by middle manager…

CDPR sounds like a relatively progressively run game company tbh. A lot of game dev companies deny you overtime during the run up to a major release and massively layoff staff after releases. Up here in British Columbia all technical workers[1] are overtime exempt because EA ran roughshod over our labour laws a number of years ago and people are too afraid to change them for fear of driving off businesses. 1. Vaguely…

Not true of EA, at least in the United States. EA hires junior employees as non-exempt for their first couple of years. They are also in my experience among the most progressive big publishers when it comes to overtime and work/life balance. Not perfect, but certainly trying in a real way across most of its studios.

Source: Worked for, but not currently employed at, several EA studios over the last decade, including as a junior engineer paid overtime.

Re: CD Projekt Conference Call with the Management Board [pdf] (Dec 14)

#334

Post by vlunkr » Wed, Dec 16, 2020, 4:15 AM UTC

artellectual wrote: post #279

As someone who works as a leader of a tech team building a financial engine, from my personal experience. When teams are doing overtime it means some bad management happened somewhere. Either someone under-estimated the scope and was never adjusted / communicated, or someone couldn't keep promise of not changing things as a result the developers and final product suffer. Software projects are very difficult to estima…

It seems like in the games industry they really want to advertise release dates or at least a release window for marketing purposes. Which results in the bad cruch periods, since you can only delay so much once you've stamped that date on it. This happens all the time, but this is an exceptionally bad example.

On the one hand, I wish companies wouldn't do this kind of crap, but on the other hand, the consumers need to be more responsible. This game has already made back the development costs, so all this backlash will probably amount to nothing. It's harsh to say, but gamers will seemingly believe anything the marketing machine tells them hook line and sinker.

Re: CD Projekt Conference Call with the Management Board [pdf] (Dec 14)

#335

Post by Tiktaalik » Wed, Dec 16, 2020, 4:16 AM UTC

908B64B197 wrote: post #203

munk-a wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CDPR sounds like a relatively progressively run game company tbh. A lot of game dev companies deny you overtime during the run up to a major release and massively layoff staff after releases. Up here in British Columbia all technical workers[1] are overtime exempt because EA ran roughshod over our labour laws a number of years ago and people are too afraid to change them for fear of driving off businesses. 1. Vaguely…

Never understood why they tried so hard to be the destination for offshoring instead of fostering home grown studios. That and pitching Vancouver as an ideal HQ2 location since tech workers are worth ~50K less than in America[0]. Is this something that Canadians approve? [0] https://www.vancouvereconomic.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02...

The theory goes that the big foreign corp (ie. EA) hires a bunch of locals, and over time those locals get good and leave to form their own company.

There's a fair amount of evidence that this works. It's not like Vancouver is solely populated by foreign studios. Local game companies like Kabam, Black Bird Interactive, Relic, United Front, etc would have all either had their roots in EA workers or would have hired ex-EA workers.

Re: CD Projekt Conference Call with the Management Board [pdf] (Dec 14)

#336

Post by allarm » Wed, Dec 16, 2020, 4:22 AM UTC

dogma1138 wrote: post #98

_cs2017_ wrote: post #27

Wasn't it obvious to anyone who play-tested on last-gen consoles that the game is nearly unplayable and so will receive horrendous reviews? Presumably CDPR employees are not afraid to convey such bad news to the management. So why did the management still decide to go ahead with the release this year? After reading this transcript, I didn't find the answer to these questions. "Underestimated the scale and complexity…

Yeah I don't get it, TW3 was unplayable for quite a while on base consoles, sub 30 fps throughout most of the game, and CB2077 is a game with much bigger scope the base consoles couldn't handle the NPC rich areas in TW3 so no matter how much optimization they would do I don't understand who thought that this game will ever be playable on the base previous gen consoles.

This point is incorrect. If they’re releasing the game for current gen, it should be playable on it.

Re: CD Projekt Conference Call with the Management Board [pdf] (Dec 14)

#337

Post by shaggyfrog » Wed, Dec 16, 2020, 4:25 AM UTC

908B64B197 wrote: post #203

munk-a wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CDPR sounds like a relatively progressively run game company tbh. A lot of game dev companies deny you overtime during the run up to a major release and massively layoff staff after releases. Up here in British Columbia all technical workers[1] are overtime exempt because EA ran roughshod over our labour laws a number of years ago and people are too afraid to change them for fear of driving off businesses. 1. Vaguely…

Never understood why they tried so hard to be the destination for offshoring instead of fostering home grown studios. That and pitching Vancouver as an ideal HQ2 location since tech workers are worth ~50K less than in America[0]. Is this something that Canadians approve? [0] https://www.vancouvereconomic.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02...

As a Canadian, Vancouver resident, and software developer, I certainly don’t approve of the discount all software companies get here, including ones based here. Not only do companies pay out 60 cents on the dollar, they can also qualify for large refundable tax credit subsidies from provincial and federal governments.

In other words, there are plenty of your “home-grown studios” here, who benefit from the manipulated market created by the multinationals that came before them.

Salaries won’t rise to meet parity until labour gets organized, but as a previous commenter pointed out about labour laws and overtime pay, it’s a massive uphill battle.

Re: CD Projekt Conference Call with the Management Board [pdf] (Dec 14)

#338

Post by rat87 » Wed, Dec 16, 2020, 4:26 AM UTC

FridgeSeal wrote: post #236

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're not seeing the issues because you're not playing the affected versions. Notice how all of the positive anecdotes are coming from PC players? IGN went so far as to split their Cyberpunk 2077 review into two separate reviews: One for consoles, and one for PC. Quote from the console review: > The Xbox One/PS4 version is nearly unrecognizable compared to the PC version. The PC version scored 9/10 and the console v…

I’ve been playing on PS4, and while not particularly pretty (not that I expected it to be) it’s been surprisingly fine, especially after the 1.0.4 patch.

ps4 pro or base?

Re: CD Projekt Conference Call with the Management Board [pdf] (Dec 14)

#339

Post by rtlfe » Wed, Dec 16, 2020, 4:27 AM UTC

elgatonegro wrote: post #249

mdoms wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you claim you don't like a game but also complete it twice in the space of about a week?

The main story is short and as I said, you're on railtracks. It's not like you can get lost in the world like in GTA or RDR, there is no world for you to get lost in. It's all smoke & mirrors. Also, pandemic lockdown in my country has left me with plenty of free time. The game offers you three "life paths" at the beginning so after I finished it once I had to see if a different path would be better. Well it turns out…

I think the question really was: why didn't you stop after the first time?

Re: CD Projekt Conference Call with the Management Board [pdf] (Dec 14)

#340

Post by gabereiser » Wed, Dec 16, 2020, 4:30 AM UTC

busterarm wrote: post #237

gabereiser wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Happened to me three times... upvoted to bring light to this as startup finances is tricky for most mortals. Dilution, premium vs standard, cliff, etc.

When I was negotiating my current job, I had a competing offer for around $100k more plus equity but it was essentially Engineer #1 after the technical co-founder. In my negotiations I inquired about said equity and the other founder was vague as hell around all of those important questions that early employees need to ask. The extra $100k wasn't worth it and I'm making the difference in real, liquid equity (and then…

They know full well what they are doing or they are naive. It’s so important to know the terms before you commit. However, another ace is living in at at-will-to-work state so I can just quit once I realize I was bamboozled. I’ve done this. I’m not proud of it, but my time is mine. I have goals. Help me achieve my goals and I’m all yours to help you achieve yours. Sad to say but there are founders/CEO’s that know engineers are itching for an early-in to a “rocket ship” and will manipulate to get momentum. Don’t buy it. Do your due diligence. Research. Ask about the terms, the equity, the stock, current value? Dilution? Who’s invested? Who has what stake? Who’s on the board? Prove to me it’s a rocket ship... sales? When do you recognize revenue? How? Opportunity pipelines healthy? All of these things are proxy to an engineer yet all of these things effect the engineer joining the company as employee <50.