Live data from Hacker News

Won’t Subscribe

tbray.org

331–340 of 362 posts

Re: Won’t Subscribe

#331
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have much sympathy for this argument. If you're a very heavy consumer of the content, it makes good sense that you end up paying more. It used to be that your only options were cable or satellite packages that included lots of content you didn't want to pay for. People complained, and wished they could only pay for the content they watched. Now we have multiple competing Internet streaming subscription servic…

With all due respect, your post boils down to "we should be glad it isn't as bad as it used to be". That doesn't at all imply that the current state is desirable. It's more about access and convenience than entitlement. Even on Google/Amazon/iTunes, you simply can't access all content. Depending on where you are globally, it might not even be possible to gain access if you subscribe to every available streaming servi…

> your post boils down to "we should be glad it isn't as bad as it used to be".

It doesn't. I responded to the complaint that there are now many competing subscription services.

> That doesn't at all imply that the current state is desirable.

I don't see any problem with there being multiple competing subscriptions, and you've not pointed any out. Your other complaints are valid but are on different topics.

> Depending on where you are globally, it might not even be possible to gain access if you subscribe to every available streaming service.

I wasn't commenting on this, but I agree it's long overdue to fix these region peculiarities. It's a market failure of a sort. An example from here in the UK: there's no way to buy episodes of The Simpsons on any streaming service.

> The license holder gets to choose whether I'm fed the "one episode a week" bullshit or whether I can watch episodes at my own leisure

That's not necessarily anti-consumer. For a show like Game of Thrones, releasing an episode a week is important to enable 'water-cooler conversations' about the show, which many viewers enjoy.

> whether to limit streaming to a limited time period or a limited subset of a series' seasons

Those limitations may be due to licensing/syndication agreements. The streaming provider might only have paid for a limited time window in which they're authorised to stream certain content. I don't think Netflix ever remove content that they own outright.

> obscuring quality ratings, limiting discoverability

These are both annoying, but streaming services don't have a monopoly on recommendations and reviews. Personally I put very little stock in their recommendations anyway, so I don't much care when they mess about with them.

> not allow viewing of shows because subtitles aren't yet available

Guessing here but that might be done in the name of inclusiveness. Adding subtitles improves disabled accessibility of the service. A strong policy of all shows must have subtitles might be a good thing; deaf users can then use the service in the knowledge that all available shows are accessible to them.

> We have the payment infrastructure to allow target audiences to access your content and pay a variable price based on what they watch.

The point of the subscription model is that you pay the same monthly rate no matter how much you watch. If you want to buy a la carte, you already have that option too. I don't see any problem here. If you mean to say you think the prices are too high, that's a different matter.

> rent-seeking, "engagement"-driven, anti-consumer walled gardens of crap.

It's not rent-seeking. Shows are costly to produce. (I happen to support radically reducing copyright durations, but that's not the same topic.)

I agree engagement-driven ecosystems can be very troublesome, but it's more an issue on YouTube (pushing people to watch politically toxic garbage), not so much with paid subscription services.

What do you mean by walled garden in this context?

Re: Won’t Subscribe

#332
> As a family we already subscribe to the NY Times, the Washington Post, the Guardian, the Vancouver Sun, the Economist, Talking Points Memo, Heated, and The Tyee.

Ohhh, it's actually the group addiction.

News can be addictive more than heroin. Instead of doing/creating something you're sitting on coach and waiting for hot feelings. Know it very well 'cause my own family experience.

Re: Won’t Subscribe

#333
post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These prices are just crazy compared to their old model. Do these papers really think they are providing as much value as Netflix (or more)? Even ignoring journalistic quality...

Indeed, who needs an informed population when you can have an entertained one.

News is informative in the best case, but often it’s useless noise, and at worse deceptive and manipulative. Netflix has documentaries and informative shows as well as entertainment (I suspect that watchers of The Patriot Act are generally well informed, for example). There’s more to life than the latest outrage.

Personally I’ve decided that books are the best way become more informed (just like when I was a child!); news and internet sources are largely clickbait and nonsense. You feel like you’re engaged and informed, but you’re not.

Re: Won’t Subscribe

#334

More thoughts. I dabble with publications 1) I subscribe to the Guardian atm even though it is free to read 2) I tried to restart subscriptions with the Financial Times and Economist recently and gave up on both due to shitty behaviour, shitty terms, shitty UI. It is not all about price

I could never justify FT subscription price. It’s nice when employers provide it, though.

It was pretty galling to find you can't cancel without using chat, and then be offered a huge discount to stay...

Re: Won’t Subscribe

#335
post #126

As a long-time publisher, there is only one primary metric that matters to me: loyal readers. I don't publish for the occasional visitor. I publish for the loyal readers that I have worked hard to cultivate, engage, and enrichen. The primary work is one of building a relationship with a loyal readership, based on consistency and quality. Our websites, as they're designed, are probably a little annoying to people who…

As a publisher maybe it is time to rethink your primary metric. As a long-time reader, i'm not interesting in being a loyal reader, i'm interested in reading the best news. I don't limit myself to the music of one band, so i really appreciate spotify, and i don't limit myself to the news of one publisher.

Why re-think what is already working? Because it will give us the ability to reach new customers?

That, unfortunately, doesn't add up. Many low-value customers is not what we need.

We need (and have) predictable revenue from stable base of customers we know and trust. (And who trust us.)

We need (and have) reliable sources for new long-term customers.

We don't need lots of (random) people paying us $1 or $2 every couple of months. Frankly, that sounds like an awful business to be in.

Re: Won’t Subscribe

#336
post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Isn't that only a small number of people? Most have their trusted news source and come by others only when printed out at Facebook (while their most read only headline and comments and don't click the link) Going back to pre Internet: Even then most people got one newspaper and be done. (I myself grew up with in a household with a daily newspaper and two weekly, in addition to subscriptions to physics and com…

Consumption of media has completely changed for me. Most of what i read is through links from others: Hackernews, Flipboard, or facebook, Google news. I think most people get very shallow news information from some big names (nu.nl) that are basically reprints from AP news items. Short discription what happened, no background, nor deep diving. Most websites have the same reprinted stories, nothing worth paying for. F…

> Most of what i read is through links from others: Hackernews, Flipboard, or facebook, Google news.

This is the sea-change that has happened. Newspapers used to be hugely profitable, because they owned and controlled the primary source of news for most people. Their platform – direct distribution directly to people's homes – was immensely powerful for many decades. That platform was disrupted by the internet. Newspapers are no longer the primary platform most people use for media consumption. Those platforms are now, as you say, places like HN, Facebook, Flipboard, Google, etc.

Re: Won’t Subscribe

#337
post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've subscribed to The Economist for 25 years. Has been interesting to see it's transformations. Not only the transition to digital but also the topics they choose to cover - or not. I currently consume on my iPhone. Mostly I listen to it but do occasionally read. Before that I used Android. Certainly some usability issues that are annoying but most apps are worse.

As someone who's only subscribed since recently: could you talk more about this? What observations have you made?

For one, there was no China section. Now it's a manor section. Another thing that old time readers would remember is the risque photos they used to have. It's a British journalism thing - or used to be.

Re: Won’t Subscribe

#338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, what if they offered a one-week or one-month access pass that didn't auto-renew. Would you be interested in something like that?

Interesting thought. I think one week pass is similar to buying 1 newspapers that is published weekly. If prices align, it’s a reasonable solution. But it’s very important that it either does not auto-renew or it’s very easy to cancel it.

Yes, that was the idea, to have an extra option—the auto-renewing subscription and then the one-off, not auto-renewing option. I'm starting to think about whether to do this for my business as well. Maybe give a % discount for the auto-renew option.

I also think what could really change the newspaper industry is making it more feasible to do smaller transactions. Not the "buy one article each" transaction, but reducing the transaction cost for small $ transactions. Right now, to charge $1, Stripe charges $0.30 + 2.9%, or 33%. I know PayPal has a micro-transaction rate but not everyone wants to use PayPal.

I would love to subscribe to a newspaper for $1-4/month, not $10-20/month. I'd probably spend more than $20/month overall, just can't justify paying $20/month for just one paper. But seems transactions costs may make it hard to lower the price to $1-4.

Re: Won’t Subscribe

#339
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because someone figured out that hiring one person on minimum wage to handle a phone queue results in them retaining more people than providing a nice and easy unsubscribe option.

Yeah, I understand that. I just think we as consumers should not accept that.

It's not like this is being advertised when you are subscribing to some service. "Subscribe now and if you ever want to cancel, we'll make you pay! PS. We know where you live."

What could the consumer do apart from relying on word of mouth to avoid such services?

Re: Won’t Subscribe

#340
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because someone figured out that hiring one person on minimum wage to handle a phone queue results in them retaining more people than providing a nice and easy unsubscribe option.

Yeah, I understand that. I just think we as consumers should not accept that.

I don't accept that; it's why I will never subscribe to the NYT.
Post reply on HN