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How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change

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Re: How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change

#331

Post by tareqak »

weaksauce wrote: post #246
kajumix wrote: post #35

"I’ve heard some suggest that the recurrent problem of racial bias in our criminal justice system proves that only protests and direct action can bring about change, and that voting and participation in electoral politics is a waste of time. I couldn’t disagree more. The point of protest is to raise public awareness... But eventually, aspirations have to be translated into specific laws and institutional practices —…

there are tangible ways that laws could be setup and practices adhered to that would make cops more accountable and, while maybe the same level of racist in some parts, help ensure that they get held accountable more often than not. mandatory body cams rolling at all times unless they are in a bathroom. turning off or a malfunctioning camera during the act of a police brutality event immediately pierces the qualified…

I personally think body camera footage should be public. I would even go as far to say security cameras owned by public institutions should also be public. I think the answer to “who watchers the watchers?” should be a group of trustworthy people beyond reproach, but the absence of such a group necessitates that this responsibility fall upon the public at large [0].

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quis_custodiet_ipsos_custodes%...

Re: How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change

#332

Post by marcusverus »

kajumix wrote: post #35

"I’ve heard some suggest that the recurrent problem of racial bias in our criminal justice system proves that only protests and direct action can bring about change, and that voting and participation in electoral politics is a waste of time. I couldn’t disagree more. The point of protest is to raise public awareness... But eventually, aspirations have to be translated into specific laws and institutional practices —…

The only reason that "the will of the people" isn't interchangeable with voting is the two party system. Unfortunately the mechanisms that drive US politics into a two party system are baked into the constitution, which means this flaw is an inseparable part of the United States Federal Government.

Re: How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change

#333

Post by pnw_hazor »

runawaybottle wrote: post #163
Agustus wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Community oversight through a board 2. Limit the use of force 3. Independently investigate and prosecute 4. Community representation 5. Body cams / film the police 6. Training in de-escalation 7. End for profit policing 8. Demilitarization of the police force 9. Fair police union contracts that remove provisions within police bill of rights that impose barriers to accountability Look here: Https://bit.ly/3cosVXM

I mentioned this in another thread, but I’ve heard the idea of putting cops on rotations similar to military deployments. I don’t think a cop can psychologically hold up being on the street for years on end without losing some perspective. The job fundamentally blasts you with the worst of people, and it’s easy to develop a rotten world view if measures are not taken to handle that input. A maximum limit of X months…

That would be nice, the "non-deployed" cycle could be used for more training.

Police (no fault of their own) are woefully under trained given what is expected from them.

Of course, it will never happen because of the cost.

Re: How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change

#334

Post by sooheon »

evmar wrote: post #189
kajumix wrote: post #35

"I’ve heard some suggest that the recurrent problem of racial bias in our criminal justice system proves that only protests and direct action can bring about change, and that voting and participation in electoral politics is a waste of time. I couldn’t disagree more. The point of protest is to raise public awareness... But eventually, aspirations have to be translated into specific laws and institutional practices —…

MLK gave a speech at Silicon Valley's own Stanford and touched on this subject (the same one with the "riot is the language of the unheard" quote you might have seen circulating). https://www.crmvet.org/docs/otheram.htm See the bit starting with: "Now there's another notion that gets out, it's around everywhere. It's in the South, it's in the North, it's In California, and all over our nation. It's the notion that le…

To spell out the actual argument: "although it may be true that morality cannot be legislated, behavior can be regulated. [...] Even though it may be true that the law cannot make a man love me, it can restrain him from lynching me."

Notice MLK is talking about specific legislature, and the poster above was talking about electing officials. They are correct that merely electing politicians is neither necessary nor sufficient--the laws must change.

Re: How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change

#335

Post by sooheon »

shuntress wrote: post #284
someguyorother wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A control theory idea: use continuous voting. When the support falls below some threshold (e.g. 50%), kick the candidate out. But now you'll get an unstable system where candidates get kicked out all the time and are too populist because they don't expect to live long. So add a low-pass filter. When the moving average of the candidate's support falls below the threshold and a definite other candidate's support is hig…

Not a bad idea but it probably depends on a level of convenience and ease of access to voting that does not seem to exist currently. Unrelated side note: when you are talking about a hypothetical politician, be aware of your choice of pronoun. You might be the type of person who picks between he/she with a precise 50/50 split but I'm going to assume you are not that type of person. Similar to the way you seem to have…

Women aren't 50% of politics. It's not a terrible Bayesian prior to say he. (as someone who says "they" for hypothetical humans)

Re: How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change

#336

Post by austincheney »

standardUser wrote: post #263
spaginal wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone has pretty much universally agreed that what the officers did was unacceptable. Even other Police. The officer was arrested, why things didn't move sooner was a local matter to take up with that mayor and that department. It should have been handled locally, not all departments are the same. But you end up in a situation of further tragedy where people start destroying property and assaulting others, and the…

Noise and chaos gets heard. You know what gets completely ignored in this country? Peaceful protest. The actions of the last week are far, far more likely to result in change than any mass protest. Just look at the anti-Iraq war protests - the largest protests in US history held in dozens of cities over months and accomplished precisely nothing at all. Civil rights, gay rights, women's right were all won with a lot m…

There is no evidence of this. Disruption doesn’t work solely for the sake of being disruptive. If anything it just disenfranchises people resulting in opposite outcomes.

Re: How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change

#337

Post by afiori »

krapp wrote: post #330
afiori wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then is it a revolution? What is the plan? The want to secede Minneapolis? It is either a democratic protest, domestic terrorism, or a civil war. I hope with all my being that it is a democratic protest.

It's the same justification many people used for voting for Trump, which was that?

I am sorry, I am a bit lost, but if Trump election had to be one of those three it would have been a democratic protest against the establishment.

Or were you referring to something else?

Re: How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change

#338

Post by nitwit005 »

randyrand wrote: post #279

Police brutality is a real issue. It's less clear that racial bias in policing is a statistically significant issue, however, when accounting for obvious things. If someone has numbers that tell a different story I am all ears. Here are mine when I attempted to find it for myself: black arrests (all crimes) a year: 2.2 million white arrests (all crimes) a year: 5.6 million https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/cr…

I'll warn that there really isn't any good data when it comes to use of force. The police departments haven't been required to report it to any national body. That link you have for deaths by police mentions using both official and unofficial sources, and having to fill in missing data.

The FBI has been making some efforts on the issue, but it's quire recent: https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-announc...

Re: How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change

#339

Post by nostromo »

_bxg1 wrote: post #321

I feel the need to point out that this is the president who spent eight years promising big-C Change, all while mostly just reinforcing and benefitting from the existing status-quo. I think it's that sunny, vaguely positive but cowardly and ineffectual brand of politics that set the stage for the wave of populist unrest we're seeing from both the left and the right right now. Politicians have been promising change wi…

The fact that Obama is almost universally loved by the rich, the famous, and the powerful should tell one a thing or two about how effective he was at bringing about big-C Change in America.

Re: How to Make this Moment the Turning Point for Real Change

#340

Post by yaj54 »

sooheon wrote: post #335
shuntress wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a bad idea but it probably depends on a level of convenience and ease of access to voting that does not seem to exist currently. Unrelated side note: when you are talking about a hypothetical politician, be aware of your choice of pronoun. You might be the type of person who picks between he/she with a precise 50/50 split but I'm going to assume you are not that type of person. Similar to the way you seem to have…

Women aren't 50% of politics. It's not a terrible Bayesian prior to say he. (as someone who says "they" for hypothetical humans)

But when done systemically it likely creates the expectation that politics is done only or mostly by men, therefore discouraging women from entering politics now and in the future. Which, I would argue, is a substantial net negative.
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