Google bans Zoom from employees' computers • Hacker News Board

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#331

Post by Wowfunhappy » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 1:26 AM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #266

distances wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can join Zoom meetings on your browser without creating an account. It's a bit off the beaten path: 1. Go to zoom.com 2. Click "Join a meeting" 3. Enter meeting id and click Join 4. Ignore the automatic app download 5. Go back 6. Click "Join a meeting" again 7. Enter meeting id and click Join again 8. Ignore the app download again 9. Click at "If nothing prompts, click here" 10. Click "Join from your browser" 11.…

Ahh, so this is that "it just works" Zoom experience I've been hearing so much about recently.

The "it just works" experience is for people using the native app. :)

Not saying you should do that, but that's why there's a difference.

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#332

Post by Wowfunhappy » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 1:28 AM UTC

rangibaby wrote: post #329

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but why does it matter if China intercepts your American school children? Why would they want to? That's not a reasonable threat model.

It still leaks information. How many kids you have, their name, some things about their personality, who they are friends with, etc. Think about how someone who wants to hurt or control you could could use that information.

> Think about how someone who wants to hurt or control you could could use that information.

"Someone", sure, but not the Chinese Government! That's a completely different threat model!

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#333

Post by kyrra » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 1:28 AM UTC

jacobsenscott wrote: post #315

neil_s wrote: post #303

(disclaimer: I work at El Goog) A number of companies have rightfully banned Zoom's native apps, given how insecure they are. I had previously uninstalled it when the news about the secret web server they install came out. Google is still allowing use of the web app, but the web app bizarrely doesn't support Grid/Gallery View, which is the main reason my friends/family wanted to use it. Hangouts Meet was optimized fo…

We switched from google hangouts to zoom a while ago because the quality "felt" better. We are a small distributed team where our internet connections run the range of fast to slow. We didn't track numbers or anything, but fewer dropouts, frozen videos, better sound quality, etc. Maybe we all just had better internet days each time we used zoom though. Never know. The UI is initially confusing, but so is the UI for e…

When you say hangouts, do you mean old hangouts or the newer Hangouts Meet? They are 2 very different products.

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#334

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 1:32 AM UTC

rossjudson wrote: post #314

cameronbrown wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generally you can install anything, but the responsibility is on you though. It's not uncommon to see people with Steam, Spotify or other personal software too.

I am pretty sure Steam gets uninstalled automatically within a day or two if it shows up on a corp laptop. I have no idea how I know this. ;)

[deleted]

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#335

Post by fludlight » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 1:33 AM UTC

HashThis wrote: post #308

Mvandenbergh wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The threat model for a school is kids/others disrupting sessions and creepers using access to gawp at (or communicate with kids). Since the Chinese government is unlikely to feel the need to compel Zoom to do that, the fact that they have all the keys centrally stored is not a problem. Google's threat model actually does include state level attack (And specifically by China) to steal IP or access confidential user da…

I great worry that China's intelligence service has the zoom traffic of American's routed to the Chinese zoom servers, so they can intercept.

Every native app made by a Chinese company could also provide a backdoor to the PLA. Same could be said about apps from other countries and the NSA, FSB, GCHQ, Mossad, ASD, whatever the Germans are calling the gentler, kinder, totally-not-spying-on-everyone-anymore-we-swear successor to the Stasi, etc.

There is no specific evidence for this, but it is a possibility. Balancing remote possibilities and accepting some that are beyond our control is what separates the sane from the tinfoil hat crowd. Personally, I would try to stick to apps by companies headquartered in your home country. This is difficult outside of the USA and probably impossible outside of the next 5 top software hub countries.

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#336

Post by soup10 » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 1:33 AM UTC

joshuamorton wrote: post #324

soup10 wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't about the merits of excel over sheets, it's about employees coming on the board and lying to promote their company. Google makes 1.61 million in revenue per employee. Honestly it's only going to get worse, because if you see the videos of the company meetings, Sundar was always the super loyalist that would say anything to protect Google or run interference for senior leadership. And now that he's CEO they…

Your reasoning is based on the belief that Google is sacrificing productivity by not giving all employees office. GP is directly contradicting that line of thought, which makes the rest of it fall apart.

there is two narratives, which do you think is more likely:

1. Google is dogfooding it's own products to improve them and make them competitive and stop potential data/privacy/security leaks by using external software.

2. Google is trying to save 20 bucks

There is nothing wrong with Google docs or sheets and I have used them both. But sooner or later you make enough documents or work with enough spreadsheets you're going to want or need some feature that office has.

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#337

Post by codesternews » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 1:35 AM UTC

Why Zoom is making so many silly mistakes. They should take advantage of this situation instead they are blowing up. Every time they apologies or make statement trust has been lost.

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#338

Post by enneff » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 1:36 AM UTC

rossjudson wrote: post #310

enneff wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MS Office isn't "banned" from employees' computers at Google. If you need it (and some do) you must request it specifically, because it costs Google a nontrivial amount of money for every user. Same thing with any piece of commercial software: for example, I have Adobe Photoshop on my Google laptop, and I had to request it because it costs Google a few hundred bucks, and most people don't need it at all. Before Googl…

I haven't once thought, "Gee, I really wish I could use Microsoft Word". I have thought, "there's a capability I wish I had in Docs" a few times. I did most of my doc writing in LyX before Google, though.

I imagine most people who want MS Office over Google Docs probably want it for Excel, which IIUC as several powerful features not present in Google's Sheets.

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#339

Post by mbo » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 1:38 AM UTC

kyrra wrote: post #333

jacobsenscott wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We switched from google hangouts to zoom a while ago because the quality "felt" better. We are a small distributed team where our internet connections run the range of fast to slow. We didn't track numbers or anything, but fewer dropouts, frozen videos, better sound quality, etc. Maybe we all just had better internet days each time we used zoom though. Never know. The UI is initially confusing, but so is the UI for e…

When you say hangouts, do you mean old hangouts or the newer Hangouts Meet? They are 2 very different products.

It is, as of today, just Google Meet, no "Hangouts".

Re: Google bans Zoom from employees' computers

#340

Post by dionian » Thu, Apr 09, 2020, 1:40 AM UTC

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #332

rangibaby wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It still leaks information. How many kids you have, their name, some things about their personality, who they are friends with, etc. Think about how someone who wants to hurt or control you could could use that information.

> Think about how someone who wants to hurt or control you could could use that information. "Someone", sure, but not the Chinese Government! That's a completely different threat model!

how so