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3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

wsj.com

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Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#331

Post by mensetmanusman »

cbruns wrote: post #291
mensetmanusman wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should 1000 people go unemployed to save one person?

Phrased differently, are you willing to die to give employment to 1000 people?

Phrased differently, I would be willing to die to give employment to 1000 people who can work to save 10 (?) people. If people aren’t working to care for the system, then doctors can’t find helpers with their kids, etc.

The system collapses in this scenario as well.

I don’t have a real answer, but this event is helping discuss interesting and difficult questions.

If I was over 70 y.o., I would think that I would be willing to die to prevent my grandchildren from experiencing the great depression.

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#332

Post by pc86 »

tibbydudeza wrote: post #255
sciencewolf wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is huge. It may be a months of jobless claims compacted into a week.

Also the knockon effect on landlords ... many bossiness want some sort of rental relief or those with limited cash flow are saying they are not going to pay.

Small business owners almost always have to personally guarantee commercial rents. "My business doesn't have revenue so I'm not paying" is simply not a valid response unless the owner is willing to take it the whole way to bankruptcy, which I'm sure we'll see a surge of in the coming months from the more aggressive landlords. It varies by state but my state is very forgiving to residential tenants and very unforgiving for commercial tenants (I say this as a former commercial tenant who owed past due rent at one point).

The SBOs with resources will just have to continue paying rent out of pocket, or face liens against their personal assets.

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#333

Post by commandlinefan »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #50
gonzo41 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Australia, they closed all the 'non-essential' industries. Which turns out to be about 30% of the workforce. I keep thinking that big shift will be when people come out of this they won't allow themselves to be 'non-essential' ever again. They won't take back those jobs, they'll push for agreements that guarantee a safety net.

> They won't take back those jobs, they'll push for agreements that guarantee a safety net. This event forcing America to adopt more progressive policies after experiencing suffering without them wouldn’t be a bad thing. Sometimes things must get worse for them to get better.

> wouldn’t be a bad thing.

Well, unless we libertarians were right all along and these progressive policies are unmaintainable over a longer period of time. At this point, I think we're about to find out one way or another.

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#334

Post by qqssccfftt »

ikeyany wrote: post #314
qqssccfftt wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"How many people are we willing to kill to keep the economy moving?"

I believe it was Elon Musk that said the future is essentially the sum of human wills.

Elon Musk, as written in the New New Testament of the Redditor/HN Bible.

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#335

Post by chadmeister »

mtberatwork wrote: post #51
PaulRobinson wrote: post #23

A staggering number, and unprecedented in the modern era. I'm not in the US or an America, but my (retired), Father is and for the sake of the people around him and his family I hope this is the point where the American political system - and Republicans in particular - realise that their ideologies are dead. In the UK we saw an Old-Etonian Tory Prime Minister in the space of a couple of weeks: - Effectively national…

I would like to be optimistic and think we all learn valuable lessons from this but realistically most people will just double-down in their convictions and blame some other externality as to why their own political/economic ideologies didn't pan out.

Looking like you are right about this. Approval ratings are up somehow: https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/trump-approval-ratings/

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#336

Post by Retric »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #330
Retric wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quarantine completely failed to prevent what was a highly localized disease globally in 2 months. We need to accept it’s simply ineffective across international borders unless draconian measures are applied before they seem required. We might get through this with 100,000 people dying globally or 100,000,000 it’s completely unknown at this point. But, should the second happen expect some significant changes to happen…

What country even quarantined everyone coming in on a plane? I might have been unclear, but I was suggesting quarantine for everyone coming in, as an alternative to banning travel forever. Quarantine set up once you already have an outbreak is uh, a different matter.

Internal travel was suspended between several countries, though far to late to make a significant difference. A partial list: https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/coronavirus-travel-bans/i...

Saying they waited to long is true, but simply means it fails due to politics.

Edit: NM, misunderstood what you where referring to.

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#337

Post by jcfrei »

wyclif wrote: post #191
9nGQluzmnq3M wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Politics here has changed forever Unlikely. I think we'll be back to business as usual (at least on the political side) within a year of the end of the pandemic. I'm also afraid that this is going to be a major setback not just for Europe but globalization in general, which will leave us all worse off in the long run.

On the contrary, setbacks for globalization may very well leave us better off...after all, globalization is one of the main factors why we're experiencing this deadly pandemic now, and have vast swathes of our supply chain for essential pharmaceuticals and medical equipment farmed out to evil, duplicitous regimes like the Chinese state.

Very one-sided take on globalization. Unless every country would completely close their borders the virus would have eventually spread everywhere anyway. While medical equipment is temporarily out of stock in some countries, globalization also guarantees that eventually each country will have access to the necessary equipment. Imagine living without global trade and expecting Afghanistan to create an industry for ventilators in a couple of months.

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#338

Post by consz »

big_chungus wrote: post #167
csomar wrote: post #146

> A week ago, he said he had “a good middle-class job” which paid him $35.50 an hour plus health care and retirement benefits. Now he is struggling to figure out how he’ll pay a $300 electric bill and $1,000 in rent for his townhouse. He also lost his health insurance. You make $35.5/hour in (I suppose?) a stable job but if the work stops for a week, you struggle with a $300 bill? I know some people are living payche…

This is exactly right. The economy has grown to unsustainable levels based on the economic habits of the average American who can't be bothered to save, hence the crash we're seeing now. At sixty hours a week, that guy should be making six figures, pre-tax. There is zero excuse for not saving. Everyone should save at least six months of salary for emergencies; though a few people legitimately can't, most Americans si…

This is silly. My professional cohort doesn't have anyone working sixty hour weeks, and these are people making mid-6 to mid-7 figures. Lot more to life than working, buddy.

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#339

Post by commandlinefan »

scottLobster wrote: post #81
sundaeofshock wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously? There were a number of submissions yesterday to HN discussing the relative merits of sacrificing millions for the sake of the market. Perhaps you missed those?

Not sure if this was your intent, but "sacrificing millions for the sake of the Market" sounds like you're trying to shift away from the point that right now about 3.28 million more folks (probably more) are wondering how to pay their rent/mortgages and feed their children. If this lockdown continues indefinitely the death numbers from the economic fallout will likely eclipse those of the pandemic. But nah, the "mark…

Yeah I don't see that the tradeoff is "letting coronavirus kill millions of people vs. Jeff Bezos losing 2% of his income" so much as "letting coronavirus kill millions of people vs. letting millions of people die of starvation". We're not there yet, but lets see where we are in a month.

Re: 3.28M file for U.S. jobless benefits

#340

Post by TMWNN »

PaulRobinson wrote: post #23

A staggering number, and unprecedented in the modern era. I'm not in the US or an America, but my (retired), Father is and for the sake of the people around him and his family I hope this is the point where the American political system - and Republicans in particular - realise that their ideologies are dead. In the UK we saw an Old-Etonian Tory Prime Minister in the space of a couple of weeks: - Effectively national…

>- Become champion supporters of an NHS they were - until recently - trying to sell bit off of

Private Eye on "24 Hours to Save the NHS https://twitter.com/KulganofCrydee/status/833654730849136641

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