Kickstarter employees vote to unionize • Hacker News Board

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#331

Post by HeroOfAges » Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 6:24 PM UTC

echelon wrote: post #3

I really don't understand this. A career in software is one of the most pampered and lucrative ones I can think of. Due to the shortage of software engineers, we can go anywhere and get a job instantly. The only downside I can think of is ageism, but then again, I have colleagues in their 50s and 60s where I work. But I suppose this isn't universal. (I'm in Atlanta and we have a lot of older workers. Age doesn't seem…

As someone posted previously, would you consider the possibility it's not the software developers that are leading the push to unionize? Perhaps there are people occupying roles in the company that don't pay as well or roles that aren't considered as valuable. Could it be that they feel they should be compensated on par with their software developer counterparts?

edited for grammar

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#332

Post by ilikehurdles » Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 6:24 PM UTC

rukittenme wrote: post #288

wanderingjew wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While not the grandparent post, I can add some of my own experiences with unions: Once, when workers in Chicago supported a general strike in support of an eight-hour workday, police shot and killed a number of workers. [1]. Someone threw dynamite into a crowd. A lot of people died, but we got that eight hour workday. Another time, workers protested for higher wages, but the company owners hired private security and…

I mean this as politely as it can be meant. And, I'm not contributing this point to make a jab at you or your political ideology. I think you need to seek professional medical help. You're contributing "personal experiences" from 150 years ago. You're hand-waving domestic terrorism because it achieved a political end you agree with. You're accusing people of being "traitors" (a capital offense) for acknowledging the…

I mean this as politely as it can be meant, but your comment is fucking disgusting. I hope it's not a reflection of your person, but your comment history indicates that it's but the tip of an iceberg.

Your points are an extremist grasping at straws to completely demonize and dehumanize another commenter. Your "most polite" is still quite rude and perhaps one of the most offensive comments in this entire discussion.

You were name-calling someone who presented their argument, implying them to be mentally ill. You accuse them of terrorism for merely citing centuries-old events. You're choosing to imagine them wishing for capital punishment of others, yet this willful ignorance of the terminology the other commenter used speaks more about you than them. For what it's worth, the other commenter did not call anyone a capital-T Traitor (an inciteful term defined by the Constitution and frequently assigned to people who criticize the US president).

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#333

Post by uerobert » Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 6:24 PM UTC

coldpie wrote: post #223

mc32 wrote: post #138

I want to know if their union contract does anything from preventing parent co from shipping jobs to places with less regulation and cheaper labor...

That will kill your company way, way faster than any union will.

How? In my country for example there is a surge of US companies setting shop here just to hire local devs, and a lot more hiring remote, when their products have presence only in the US. Each year the number keep increasing.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#334

Post by elicash » Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 6:24 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #138

I want to know if their union contract does anything from preventing parent co from shipping jobs to places with less regulation and cheaper labor...

Now that there's union recognition, they will finally negotiate a contract. Sometimes, this process can take a very long time. This step hasn't begun yet.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#335

Post by balls187 » Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 6:24 PM UTC

CJefferson wrote: post #314

jaredtn wrote: post #221

I would love to understand the dynamic better, so please correct me here or chime in. Tech is has one of the best combinations of (lucrative + meritocratic) I've seen. Fields that pay similarly or better (law, medicine, investment banking) require either significant time-consuming credentials or significant time investment as an underlying (like IB analyst). The interview process does require intensive preparation to…

So, first of all, most people aren't "top performers", so it would make sense for 75% of developers to want a Union under your reasoning. Secondly, in my experience it isn't the "top performers" who end up with the highest pay, it's the people best at spouting bullshit and sounding convincing.

> who end up with the highest pay, it's the people best at spouting bullshit and sounding convincing.

Putting it more objectively--it's the people who often are able to provide their first line manager with opportunities for better pay.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#336

Post by codingmess » Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 6:25 PM UTC

dangus wrote: post #2

> That dynamic doesn’t reflect who we are as a company, how we interact, how we make decisions, or where we need to go. We believe that in many ways it would set us back, and that the us vs. them binary already has. What a shameful statement. Kickstarter has a so-so 3.6 on Glassdoor, and a sub-50% CEO approval rating. A lot of reviews talk about a secretive, insulated management group. You don’t see companies with 4.…

Isn't forming a union creating a "us versus them" situation?

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#337

Post by naiveprogrammer » Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 6:25 PM UTC

metalliqaz wrote: post #265

calderarrow wrote: post #235

Coming from a public accounting background, I’ve seen a variety of businesses. Somewhat obviously, I’ve seen some be successful with unions and others be successful without, which makes sense, as unions are neither inherently good nor bad. They are a tool which can change the power dynamic and incentive structure of workers and employers throughout an organization, but there is nothing inherent about having a union t…

The (original) article only mentioned one grievance, that Kickstarter removed a "punch nazis" project and the employees revolted. Honestly it sounds like they had it pretty good.

"play stupid games win stupid prizes"

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#338

Post by Ididntdothis » Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 6:26 PM UTC

calderarrow wrote: post #235

Coming from a public accounting background, I’ve seen a variety of businesses. Somewhat obviously, I’ve seen some be successful with unions and others be successful without, which makes sense, as unions are neither inherently good nor bad. They are a tool which can change the power dynamic and incentive structure of workers and employers throughout an organization, but there is nothing inherent about having a union t…

I would think that in well run ethical companies the relationship with unions would also be harmonious. That’s at least how it works in Germany with unions like IG Metall. Seems to me that problems mostly arise when management becomes unreasonable.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#339

Post by ilikehurdles » Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 6:26 PM UTC

danso wrote: post #91

crankylinuxuser wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just formed a company back in December. Super easy to set up an LLC, C or S Corp. But I wanted it to be a worker co-op like Mondragon. And there's no real guidance or help. Democracy is cool, until we look at companies. Then it's dictatorships as the norm. And trying to do it right from the ground up is high impossible. As a obligatory comment: are there any other in the HN-sphere that focuses on worker cooperative…

Sure, it's hard/unfeasible for a startup to unionize in its formative years. But Kickstarter was founded in 2009 and is a relatively mature company in the tech sector.

I think they parent is asking more about how few resources exist helping people establish and manage worker co-op forms of businesses rather than LLCs or S-Corps.

Re: Kickstarter employees vote to unionize

#340

Post by notyourday » Tue, Feb 18, 2020, 6:26 PM UTC

erik998 wrote: post #260

_sbrk wrote: post #68

I worked in a union shop once, as a summer intern. Every day, we were told to be in the break room at 7:59am to begin promptly at the 8am bell. By 4:30 or 4:45pm, everyone was back in there, waiting for the clock to hit 5pm. One day, I needed to connect two PCs together, which was approved by boss as they would be isolated from the network. So, being the diligent type, I went off and found some network cards and a ca…

Those were my initial feelings as well. I guess the issue comes down to focusing on software development as a skill and having that skill rewarded in manner you can count on. Our industry is really similar to actors. They have SAG and their guild negotiates with the MPAA. So every studio needs to belong to MPAA. Every year they negotiate the daily/weekly minimum rates for actors with SAG. They are pretty flexible wit…

> Can you imagine all the FAANG companies having to setup a Software Industry Association to negotiate with a Software Developers Guild every year? It seems plausible. It's probably in their best interest as well. These companies could just dump any social issues on to the union and just focus on making profits. The ability to lock out competitors might force other big software dev employers to join the association as well.

Unless you want to spend most of your life waiting tables and bartending while looking for another part time gig at some software house, this is the last thing that you want.